conversation snippets buzzing around the prayers for peace
A fairly reprsentative cross-section of them I think.
Discussies:alt.gathering.rainbow Datum:2005-06-26 08:09:48 PST------ xx : : xx ------ Van:lightwaryr@yahoo.com (lightwaryr@yahoo.com)
Subject: forget all rumors of cancellation or abandonment, folks are still at cheat mountain ------ xx : : xx ------ please do not misrepresent the truth with rumor, propaganda, hearsay or conjecture. there are still people at cheat mountain and there is no rebellion. folks there have serious questions about the safety of gathering at the cranberry site. the people there want to offer what they consider a safe alternative to the cranberry site, especially for folks with young children, the elderly and those with serious health issues who could easily be at risk if the water becomes contaminated by shitters which are above the springs or by over-crowding on a small site. right now people are still developing the infra-structure. some of the people who left did so because they did not want to do the work of developing a new site. others have come to the site from cranberry because they did not like how things were there. if the cranberry site becames over crowded or the water becomes contaminated, people will be glad to know that there is a safe alternative. this is not a competition between sites. this is about serving the family. jane ------ xx : : xx ------ whatever happened to concensus? so it seems that whatever number cheat mountain is. only a very few are there and majority are at other site. sounds like a split to me. or that one is a gathering, and theother is a campout till they get a permit. spiritrising ------ xx : : xx ------ Seems like it's alive and well, unless you believe the process should include those of us who are not actually on the land, in the light of day. Consensus is feet on the ground, digging shidders. Posting on a.g.r. complaining about how things haven't gone the way you'd like them to, isn't part of that. now i know you don't know anything, .. .. if that was true , guess what my concensus of key west would have been real, there are people on the land digging shitters and cooking food and having a good time. .. . .all in key west! oh well someday you'll learn. i haven't complained about one thing .. . infact i have laughed at the joke it has become. spiritrising ------ xx : : xx ------ You are judging people on their actions and you are not even an eyewitness to their situation. You may not cut me down simply because I spoke up in their defense against you. You are wrong, spiritrising. You've opted out of the gathering for political reasons. That's your choice, and your perogative, but it does not bind anyone else to follow your wisdom, and it has zero bearing on the consensus process which is rainbow. The consensus process has the gathering going on, disaster it may be. Some people are reporting it's not bad. Others are reporting a complete clusterfuck. I'm going on the theory that the different experience is in proportion to how much distance you put between yourself and the nearest alcoholic beverage. Unlike you, I am willing to go there and witness the experience for myself. Then I will be in a position to comment on what is going on in West Virginia. At this moment I am only in a position to look for information that will help me go there. I would not presume to judge the decisions of people who are on the land right now, and I certainly would not make an attack of the sort you want to do, that the consensus process has failed. What does Key West have to do with it? I'd love to go to Key West. Especially after the way people like Rich and Turtle and 22 talk it up. But I really don't understand what that has to do with the current sitation in WV. I especially don't see how it's supposed to help them, soon to be us. Oh well, soon I'll be offline too, and out of your hair. Afterwards, I'll have been an eyewitness and a participant, and I'll have my opinions from that experience. You'll still be talking from hearsay. ------ xx : : xx ------ really, i have front seat and first hand knowledge of everything that is going on at all three site and they are not the only sites,i did not opt out for political reasons, i got tired of the deaths that happened because of the gatherings, i'm not political at all and could care less what the us gov. does. i belong to a different and soveriegn nation. so that blows your shit again little man. yep the consensus has been going on, tomorrow every body meets at buffets bar, you can not say it ain't so because it is consensus on the land that was used. oh and by the way i haven't had any kind of ahcohol probaly since before you were born or even longer again blowing your shit down the tube. like i said you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, i advise some airconditioning maybe you have heat stroke or something. i have been experiencing gatherings a lot longer than you have and gatherings died when it lost front gate. may it rest in peace, go to the movie and nazi gathering in wv tell us how much fun you have. hile hitler to ya .stupid is as stupid does and by the looks of things i hear from my cousin the district supervisor it is nothing like it ever has been. a-camp is where council is so have your beer , suck it down and tell me more stupid shit. there is more than one consensus on this planet and they are having a national raainbow family gathering in key west as we speak per vision council last year. didn't you hear about it? too bad proves again you don't know shit, except what you try to wipe off your ass, hey ya missed some.i cana actaully smell it overflowing from your posts, glad i got a shovel. spiritrising ------ xx : : xx ------ You spend more time at a computer keyboard than *I* do. That's a neat trick, from rainbow land. I'm jealous. I suspect you are a mean, angry person. I'm sorry you have had more contact with death than you would have liked. Don't lay it on me please. That's twice you've done that. I'm not responsible for that, and I really am not in a position to help you heal. ------ xx : : xx ------ " too bad proves again you don't know shit, except what you try to wipe off your ass, hey ya missed some. i cana actaully smell it overflowing from your posts, glad i got a shovel. " ------ xx : : xx ------ I think I deserve to be treated better than you treat me. I don't quite understand how or who you think you're helping with this kind of bitterness. Whatever works for you spiritrising; have fun in Key West. I really didn't do anything to provoke anyone to something like a hitler reference. I know that much in my heart. ------ xx : : xx ------ yep i still carry the motto kill them all let their gods sort em out! i don't need healing, i like it that way. didn't you know that kids are going to the gathering wearing swastickas and such? can tell you haven't been to one in a long time if at all. or is it those blinders you wear? hile hitler! spiritrising ------ xx : : xx ------ Jane, I need to interupt you here: "please do not misrepresent the truth with rumor, propaganda, hearsay or conjecture. " ------ xx : : xx ------ I ask you to follow your own advice. The water at Cranberry comes from springs well above shitters, and even from springs outside the site. I helped lay some of this pipe, I speak from being there. The people who left Cheat Mountain left because there were no sites for a kitchen. There were no sites for camping. We scouted Cheat Mountain, we intended to camp there, it simply wasn't possible. The trees are too dense for camping in them, and the there are many dangerous drop offs that could seriously injure our family. When I left Cheat Mountain, I had not encountered a single hippie who left Cranberry. The only ones I met were people who HEARD Cranberry was bad. ------ xx : : xx ------ "if the cranberry site becames over crowded or the water becomes contaminated, people will be glad to know that there is a safe alternative. " ------ xx : : xx ------ Thank you for thinking of the Family, and I am very sincere about that. I think when you get on the Cheat Mountain Site your views of safety will change. ------ xx : : xx ------ "this is not a competition between sites. this is about serving the family. " ------ xx : : xx ------ I agree, that is why I went to Cheat Mountain, and why I left it. Treetop Dave
------ xx : : xx
SLIGHTLY DISTURBING 'EVIDENCE' OF 'OPPOSITES ATTRACT'?????
Van:Michael Butschky (butsch1@comcast.net)
Subject: Are the gas chambers on site yet? ------ xx : : xx ------ .
Hey All, I was browsing through the news and saw this article about the site the Forest Service has picked out for us. So, are the "showers" on site yet? Best Wishes, Mike
June 24, 2005 Rainbows and Nazis
Let there be peace
WHOSE bright idea was it to relocate the Rainbow Family gathering a mile away from the headquarters of one of the largest neo-Nazi organizations in the country? Somebody in the U.S. Forest Service evidently doesnt mind inviting trouble. We know the Forest Service has its hands full trying to protect the forest while accommodating thousands of counterculture campers. We know the Rainbow Family rejected some other alternatives. But the National Alliance draws racists and skinheads from many parts of the world to its compound in Pocahontas County. Who decided it would be a good idea to camp a multiracial group of thousands of clothes-avoidant peaceniks next door to them? A quick cruise of the National Alliance Web site shows that the group advocates violence, preaches racism, and would be extremely hostile to just about everything the eclectic Rainbow group represents. Both groups are counterculture, at opposite extremes. Earlier this week, Pocahontas County prosecutor Walt Weiford said, I doubt there would be any conflicts as long as there is no encroachment on [the National Alliances] lands. Typically, they have not welcomed guests. Theres an understatement. Weiford said he depends on Pocahontas County Sheriff Bob Alkire to make sure there is no trouble when the crowd gathers around the July 4 weekend. Hopefully, the West Virginia State Police will be on hand, too. Any violence would make national news. Millions would automatically assume the Nazis are homegrown West Virginians. We wish the Rainbow Family a peaceful gathering, since they're here. This is their first trip back to the state after two members were tragically murdered here 25 years ago. Now that the Forest Service has invited trouble by shifting the group to the Cranberry Mountain camping site, we hope they will do what they can to make sure the Rainbows and Nazis ignore each other
Piet: I've written many times about what leftest lefty activists and the rightest right wingwonks have in common* or should have in common but nobody seems to have found and made a big deal of it yet; perhaps I buried it to deep, curse the squirrel in me then.
* taking turns ordering would be bullies around, instructing them from a very early age onward to perform ever more glorious feats of social service. See them sweat for ever bigger, better and more piles of compost.
At 07:51 PM 6/27/2005, Shelley Wertz wrote: >I am in the same boat, Mr. Burns. My son Derek (a single father) and my >granddaughter (who turned 4 on June 12th) left here (Michigan) on the 27th >of May to go to Elkins. I know they got there ok, but I haven't heard >from them in several weeks so I don't even know which site they have >settled at. I wouldn't worry, except that my son told me about these >email groups, and some of the the stuff I read here is pretty scary. It >sounds to me like my granddaughter is in harm's way from law enforcement >officers, neo-nazis, bad water, highway traffic, and poisonous >plants. Derek also told me though that it is difficult to get to a phone, >because (at that time at least) there were road blocks and he had to hike >in and out, so would not be calling for a while. It has caused me some >stress, reading about all the problems and agitation. I'm sure that at a >resident of "Babylon" I am probably deemed incapable of understanding >love, peace, tolerance, and faith, -- however, I seem to have enough >understanding of how the world works to be able to keep a roof over my >granddaughter's head for the 10 months a year that she and my son are not >off gathering with their "family." I hope that the family steps in to >care for my granddaughter should my son land his ... self ... in jail or >the hospital. Oh well. I do admire the Rainbow, and respect the message >they spread. I just don't need the chaos and agitation that seem to be >the norm with these gatherings. Having lived through the 60's and 70's >once, I am just glad to still be sucking air. So I will continue to pray >for peace from where I am, and to let it begin with me. And I will >continue to punch the time clock every day, and to be the little drip of >oil that has fallen through the floorboards of capitalism, so that when >the kitchens close and the gathering is over, I will be able to say to my >son and my granddaughter, Wel! come Home. As John Lennon said, "A >working class hero is something to be." If anyone in the camps sees a >little munchkin who answers to Lani, or Lulu, or Cuckoo Buns, tell her and >her Daddy-O that Grammy misses them. Mr. Burns, I hope you hear from >Paul soon. I guess all we can do is pray for safety for our kids, and for >a change of heart and courage for those who feel threatened by our >kids. "It is within our power to say ' I hear you, and I surrender.' I >am going to try to live well and peaceably." (Geronimo)
Karin:
While some people use the term "babylon", many gatherers don't. Many gatherers, myself included, believe that everyone with a belly button is a Rainbow. You would be surprised at how many gatherers have jobs as doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers and social workers and work very hard all year long to be able to spend three weeks in the woods with their family. Myself included. But knowing that you are concerned about the well being of your family, I have forwarded this message on to some friends who are at the gathering and seem to be popping out to check email from time to time. As to the chaos, it is usually worse on the outside looking in. Once you're in the gathering, life is usually very peaceful except for children crying and the late night drumming to disturb the peace. Love, Karin.
Discussies:alt.gathering.rainbow Datum:2005-06-26 08:09:48 PST------ xx : : xx ------ Van:lightwaryr@yahoo.com (lightwaryr@yahoo.com)
Subject: forget all rumors of cancellation or abandonment, folks are still at cheat mountain ------ xx : : xx ------ please do not misrepresent the truth with rumor, propaganda, hearsay or conjecture. there are still people at cheat mountain and there is no rebellion. folks there have serious questions about the safety of gathering at the cranberry site. the people there want to offer what they consider a safe alternative to the cranberry site, especially for folks with young children, the elderly and those with serious health issues who could easily be at risk if the water becomes contaminated by shitters which are above the springs or by over-crowding on a small site. right now people are still developing the infra-structure. some of the people who left did so because they did not want to do the work of developing a new site. others have come to the site from cranberry because they did not like how things were there. if the cranberry site becames over crowded or the water becomes contaminated, people will be glad to know that there is a safe alternative. this is not a competition between sites. this is about serving the family. jane ------ xx : : xx ------ whatever happened to concensus? so it seems that whatever number cheat mountain is. only a very few are there and majority are at other site. sounds like a split to me. or that one is a gathering, and theother is a campout till they get a permit. spiritrising ------ xx : : xx ------ Seems like it's alive and well, unless you believe the process should include those of us who are not actually on the land, in the light of day. Consensus is feet on the ground, digging shidders. Posting on a.g.r. complaining about how things haven't gone the way you'd like them to, isn't part of that. now i know you don't know anything, .. .. if that was true , guess what my concensus of key west would have been real, there are people on the land digging shitters and cooking food and having a good time. .. . .all in key west! oh well someday you'll learn. i haven't complained about one thing .. . infact i have laughed at the joke it has become. spiritrising ------ xx : : xx ------ You are judging people on their actions and you are not even an eyewitness to their situation. You may not cut me down simply because I spoke up in their defense against you. You are wrong, spiritrising. You've opted out of the gathering for political reasons. That's your choice, and your perogative, but it does not bind anyone else to follow your wisdom, and it has zero bearing on the consensus process which is rainbow. The consensus process has the gathering going on, disaster it may be. Some people are reporting it's not bad. Others are reporting a complete clusterfuck. I'm going on the theory that the different experience is in proportion to how much distance you put between yourself and the nearest alcoholic beverage. Unlike you, I am willing to go there and witness the experience for myself. Then I will be in a position to comment on what is going on in West Virginia. At this moment I am only in a position to look for information that will help me go there. I would not presume to judge the decisions of people who are on the land right now, and I certainly would not make an attack of the sort you want to do, that the consensus process has failed. What does Key West have to do with it? I'd love to go to Key West. Especially after the way people like Rich and Turtle and 22 talk it up. But I really don't understand what that has to do with the current sitation in WV. I especially don't see how it's supposed to help them, soon to be us. Oh well, soon I'll be offline too, and out of your hair. Afterwards, I'll have been an eyewitness and a participant, and I'll have my opinions from that experience. You'll still be talking from hearsay. ------ xx : : xx ------ really, i have front seat and first hand knowledge of everything that is going on at all three site and they are not the only sites,i did not opt out for political reasons, i got tired of the deaths that happened because of the gatherings, i'm not political at all and could care less what the us gov. does. i belong to a different and soveriegn nation. so that blows your shit again little man. yep the consensus has been going on, tomorrow every body meets at buffets bar, you can not say it ain't so because it is consensus on the land that was used. oh and by the way i haven't had any kind of ahcohol probaly since before you were born or even longer again blowing your shit down the tube. like i said you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, i advise some airconditioning maybe you have heat stroke or something. i have been experiencing gatherings a lot longer than you have and gatherings died when it lost front gate. may it rest in peace, go to the movie and nazi gathering in wv tell us how much fun you have. hile hitler to ya .stupid is as stupid does and by the looks of things i hear from my cousin the district supervisor it is nothing like it ever has been. a-camp is where council is so have your beer , suck it down and tell me more stupid shit. there is more than one consensus on this planet and they are having a national raainbow family gathering in key west as we speak per vision council last year. didn't you hear about it? too bad proves again you don't know shit, except what you try to wipe off your ass, hey ya missed some.i cana actaully smell it overflowing from your posts, glad i got a shovel. spiritrising ------ xx : : xx ------ You spend more time at a computer keyboard than *I* do. That's a neat trick, from rainbow land. I'm jealous. I suspect you are a mean, angry person. I'm sorry you have had more contact with death than you would have liked. Don't lay it on me please. That's twice you've done that. I'm not responsible for that, and I really am not in a position to help you heal. ------ xx : : xx ------ " too bad proves again you don't know shit, except what you try to wipe off your ass, hey ya missed some. i cana actaully smell it overflowing from your posts, glad i got a shovel. " ------ xx : : xx ------ I think I deserve to be treated better than you treat me. I don't quite understand how or who you think you're helping with this kind of bitterness. Whatever works for you spiritrising; have fun in Key West. I really didn't do anything to provoke anyone to something like a hitler reference. I know that much in my heart. ------ xx : : xx ------ yep i still carry the motto kill them all let their gods sort em out! i don't need healing, i like it that way. didn't you know that kids are going to the gathering wearing swastickas and such? can tell you haven't been to one in a long time if at all. or is it those blinders you wear? hile hitler! spiritrising ------ xx : : xx ------ Jane, I need to interupt you here: "please do not misrepresent the truth with rumor, propaganda, hearsay or conjecture. " ------ xx : : xx ------ I ask you to follow your own advice. The water at Cranberry comes from springs well above shitters, and even from springs outside the site. I helped lay some of this pipe, I speak from being there. The people who left Cheat Mountain left because there were no sites for a kitchen. There were no sites for camping. We scouted Cheat Mountain, we intended to camp there, it simply wasn't possible. The trees are too dense for camping in them, and the there are many dangerous drop offs that could seriously injure our family. When I left Cheat Mountain, I had not encountered a single hippie who left Cranberry. The only ones I met were people who HEARD Cranberry was bad. ------ xx : : xx ------ "if the cranberry site becames over crowded or the water becomes contaminated, people will be glad to know that there is a safe alternative. " ------ xx : : xx ------ Thank you for thinking of the Family, and I am very sincere about that. I think when you get on the Cheat Mountain Site your views of safety will change. ------ xx : : xx ------ "this is not a competition between sites. this is about serving the family. " ------ xx : : xx ------ I agree, that is why I went to Cheat Mountain, and why I left it. Treetop Dave
------ xx : : xx
SLIGHTLY DISTURBING 'EVIDENCE' OF 'OPPOSITES ATTRACT'?????
Van:Michael Butschky (butsch1@comcast.net)
Subject: Are the gas chambers on site yet? ------ xx : : xx ------ .
Hey All, I was browsing through the news and saw this article about the site the Forest Service has picked out for us. So, are the "showers" on site yet? Best Wishes, Mike
June 24, 2005 Rainbows and Nazis
Let there be peace
WHOSE bright idea was it to relocate the Rainbow Family gathering a mile away from the headquarters of one of the largest neo-Nazi organizations in the country? Somebody in the U.S. Forest Service evidently doesnt mind inviting trouble. We know the Forest Service has its hands full trying to protect the forest while accommodating thousands of counterculture campers. We know the Rainbow Family rejected some other alternatives. But the National Alliance draws racists and skinheads from many parts of the world to its compound in Pocahontas County. Who decided it would be a good idea to camp a multiracial group of thousands of clothes-avoidant peaceniks next door to them? A quick cruise of the National Alliance Web site shows that the group advocates violence, preaches racism, and would be extremely hostile to just about everything the eclectic Rainbow group represents. Both groups are counterculture, at opposite extremes. Earlier this week, Pocahontas County prosecutor Walt Weiford said, I doubt there would be any conflicts as long as there is no encroachment on [the National Alliances] lands. Typically, they have not welcomed guests. Theres an understatement. Weiford said he depends on Pocahontas County Sheriff Bob Alkire to make sure there is no trouble when the crowd gathers around the July 4 weekend. Hopefully, the West Virginia State Police will be on hand, too. Any violence would make national news. Millions would automatically assume the Nazis are homegrown West Virginians. We wish the Rainbow Family a peaceful gathering, since they're here. This is their first trip back to the state after two members were tragically murdered here 25 years ago. Now that the Forest Service has invited trouble by shifting the group to the Cranberry Mountain camping site, we hope they will do what they can to make sure the Rainbows and Nazis ignore each other
Piet: I've written many times about what leftest lefty activists and the rightest right wingwonks have in common* or should have in common but nobody seems to have found and made a big deal of it yet; perhaps I buried it to deep, curse the squirrel in me then.
* taking turns ordering would be bullies around, instructing them from a very early age onward to perform ever more glorious feats of social service. See them sweat for ever bigger, better and more piles of compost.
At 07:51 PM 6/27/2005, Shelley Wertz wrote: >I am in the same boat, Mr. Burns. My son Derek (a single father) and my >granddaughter (who turned 4 on June 12th) left here (Michigan) on the 27th >of May to go to Elkins. I know they got there ok, but I haven't heard >from them in several weeks so I don't even know which site they have >settled at. I wouldn't worry, except that my son told me about these >email groups, and some of the the stuff I read here is pretty scary. It >sounds to me like my granddaughter is in harm's way from law enforcement >officers, neo-nazis, bad water, highway traffic, and poisonous >plants. Derek also told me though that it is difficult to get to a phone, >because (at that time at least) there were road blocks and he had to hike >in and out, so would not be calling for a while. It has caused me some >stress, reading about all the problems and agitation. I'm sure that at a >resident of "Babylon" I am probably deemed incapable of understanding >love, peace, tolerance, and faith, -- however, I seem to have enough >understanding of how the world works to be able to keep a roof over my >granddaughter's head for the 10 months a year that she and my son are not >off gathering with their "family." I hope that the family steps in to >care for my granddaughter should my son land his ... self ... in jail or >the hospital. Oh well. I do admire the Rainbow, and respect the message >they spread. I just don't need the chaos and agitation that seem to be >the norm with these gatherings. Having lived through the 60's and 70's >once, I am just glad to still be sucking air. So I will continue to pray >for peace from where I am, and to let it begin with me. And I will >continue to punch the time clock every day, and to be the little drip of >oil that has fallen through the floorboards of capitalism, so that when >the kitchens close and the gathering is over, I will be able to say to my >son and my granddaughter, Wel! come Home. As John Lennon said, "A >working class hero is something to be." If anyone in the camps sees a >little munchkin who answers to Lani, or Lulu, or Cuckoo Buns, tell her and >her Daddy-O that Grammy misses them. Mr. Burns, I hope you hear from >Paul soon. I guess all we can do is pray for safety for our kids, and for >a change of heart and courage for those who feel threatened by our >kids. "It is within our power to say ' I hear you, and I surrender.' I >am going to try to live well and peaceably." (Geronimo)
Karin:
While some people use the term "babylon", many gatherers don't. Many gatherers, myself included, believe that everyone with a belly button is a Rainbow. You would be surprised at how many gatherers have jobs as doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers and social workers and work very hard all year long to be able to spend three weeks in the woods with their family. Myself included. But knowing that you are concerned about the well being of your family, I have forwarded this message on to some friends who are at the gathering and seem to be popping out to check email from time to time. As to the chaos, it is usually worse on the outside looking in. Once you're in the gathering, life is usually very peaceful except for children crying and the late night drumming to disturb the peace. Love, Karin.
posted by piety piet at 1:16 AM
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