Well Bred Rock, Sanctified Surface and Go(o)dliness

Posts on Ward Churchill (lbo mostly)

2006-05-19T09:50:00.000-07:00

At www.pulpculture.org posts with Ward Churchill as topic follow each other in rapid succession during the 3rd week of may:

piet Says: May 18th, 2006 at 2:08 pm
Ward links collected by me, used to have 2 more of these.
Listen to the man. He is a master in making long and involved sentence and can quote himself at length like nobody’s business.
There is a Coloradan who usefully posts links to most stuff that comes out about him and tries to deride and tear it down before it hits the ground. Him and his buddies are quite clumsy though.The most blatant attempt is at once the most illuminating example. Namely, when they like to quote Ward saying he wants the US off the planet they’re fighting off their biased belligerence to abuse some photoshopping skills in order to place Ward at some Cold War red button room rather than sticking up the pic where he holds a firearm. Of course Ward could defuse this skewage a little if he went into secession and such dissolvents a little more and better. The fact he doesn’t is in fact the main reason the right can use and abuse him so fruitfully and hold him up as the seemingly smart cookie and say: see, this is the best the left can do: reaction. Violence condonement.

Doug: .. . the story of white treatment of the Indians is horrible enough - why did Churchill have to invent, exaggerate, and plagiarize? It's a sad thing.
----------------------------

How do you know this? Take for example the charge that Churchill wrongly stated that the American governent deliberately infected natives with smallpox blankets. Obviously, this is a matter of some contention. What kind of records exist? If this is a subject of debate between academics, then why is Churchill guilty of stating his position on the issue?
Chuck0

This is dealt with in the full report - which, by the way, reads like no right-wing hatchet job. It repeatedly acknowledges the horrors suffered by Indians, the racism of whites, the ambiguities of the historical record, and the validity of "different ways of knowing."
But, in a phrase, the claims made by Churchill on this issue just don't match the sources he cited, and it's not just a narrow miss. And that's when he cites sources at all.

And you can be damned sure that now whenever anyone brings up the genocide of the Indians, apologists will say, "Churchill made all that up."

By the way, Yoshie shows up on p. 77 of the report (p. 78 to a PDF reader):
>Professor Churchill then devoted several paragraphs of Submission B to a federal program announced in 1832 to vaccinate American Indians against smallpox and the orders issued by Lewis Cass, Secretary of War, concerning the implementation of that program. Professor Churchill described his source for that account as: "Extracts from Diane Pearson's 'Medical Diplomacy and the American Indian: Thomas Jefferson, the Lewis and Clark Expedition, and the Subsequent
>Effects on American Indian Health and Public Policy' (Wicazo Sa Review, Vol. 19, No. 1, 1994) offered by Yoshie Furuhashi in 'Nothing but the Facts.'" Furuhashi's "Nothing but the Facts" was an online posting no longer available at the time of our investigation.
>
>Professor Churchill's citation of Pearson is incorrect in several respects, though it is not clear whether the problem originated with Furuhashi or him.

Doug

>>>>
What's amazing is how the Rightwing stalwarts of academic integrity and honesty can pass over the fact that almost every single assertion or piece of evidence presented by the US oiligarchy to justify the murder of 50,000+ Iraqis and 2,400+ US soldiers has been a shameless, contemptible
>lie.

All true. But some of us writers who are radical critics of the established order feel an obligation to be especially accurate, making it a little harder for apologists to dismiss the critique.

Doug

What's noteworthy is that Ward Churchill's works investigated by the
Investigative Committee of the Standing Committee on Research
Misconduct at the University of Colorado at Boulder (cf.
colorado.edu/.WardChurchillReport.pdf
are those published by non-scholarly presses -- except Routledge --
and publications:

Ward Churchill, ed., Critical Issue in Native North America
(Copenhagen: International Work Group on
Indigenous Affairs, 1989)

"The Water Plot," Z Magazine, April 1993

Struggle for the Land: Indigenous Resistance to Genocide, Ecocide, and
Expropriation in Contemporary North America (Monroe, ME: Common
Courage Press, 1993).

Indians Are Us? Culture and Genocide in Native North America (Monroe,
ME: Common Courage Press, 1994)

Since Predator Came: Notes from the Struggle for American Indian
Liberation (Littleton, CO: Aigis Publications, 1995).

A Little Matter of Genocide: Holocaust and Denial in the Americas,
1492 to the Present (San Francisco: City Light Books, 1997)

"An American Holocaust? The Structure of Denial." Socialism and
Democracy, Vol. 17, No. 1 (Issue No. 33, 2003): 25-76,
sdonline.org/33/ward_churchill.htm

Acts of Rebellion: The Ward Churchill Reader (New York: Routledge, 2003).

On the Justice of Roosting Chickens: Reflections on the Consequences
of U.S. Imperial Arrogance and Criminality (Oakland, CA: AK Press,
2003)

Perversions of Justice: Indigenous People and Angloamerican Law (San
Francisco: City Lights Books, 2003)

That raises questions: Is it fair to look into what gets published by
Z Magazine, AK Press, etc. and hold it up to exactly the same standard
as what gets published in scholarly journals and university presses?
Is it common for professors to get investigated for "academic
misconduct" on account of what they published for non-scholarly
audiences?

As I stated in my previous postings, I try to do what I can to ensure accuracy, readability, and so on in editing pieces for MRZine, at times to the point of rewriting things nearly from the ground up, as much as my time allows. (You know me -- my habit is to footnote even goddamn LBO-talk postings.) Monthly Review, being a monthly publication, sets itself even a higher standard (e.g., when things get submitted to MR on topics in which MR editors are not well versed, they get sent to reviewers). But I don't think that other left-wing publishing outfits all do what we try to do, much less do the same as scholarly journals and university presses.

If left-wing scholars, from now on, must expect to have their popular works investigated in a way that Churchill's were, left-wing publishers would all have to change the way they do business and copy scholarly publishing procedures.

Shouldn't you be careful about saying things like this now that you have a position with Monthly Review? And aren't you encouraging people to treat the output of radical presses less seriously?

Doug

I asserted that a number of Arabs and Muslims suffer from what can be called "Holocaust envy" (at http://mailman.lbo-talk.org..n-20060508/038013.html). So do many American Indians and others who suffered -- or still suffer -- from oppressions that are downplayed or dismissed altogether by many. You see, the Holocaust has become _the_ standard of evil, and many are tempted to analogize their oppression to the Holocaust -- hence the prevalence of the term "genocide" among leftists, too, not just among genocide-mongers of the Right.

That's why I think Michael Steinberg's argument in
< http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/steinberg080506.html > is so cogent.

Another reason is that a combination of moralism and capitalism tends to have us believe that intentional wrongs are more of a problem than unintentional wrongs. A case can be made that, morally speaking, intentional wrongs are worse than unintentional wrongs. But, in terms
of consequences, unintentional wrongs are often much worse than intentional wrongs. Some can be induced to understand this point intellectually, but many find it unsatisfying, trapped as they are in conventional morality.

I suspect that these two reasons led Ward Churchill to develop his apparent belief in, for instance, a case of an intentional spreading of smallpox where he couldn't find written records for it. (I don't think he deliberately tried to lie -- he probably talked himself into believing it, as many -- including scholars -- do about what they want to believe.)
--
Yoshie

Thornton:
"Holocaust envy"? I think that as far as Native Americans are concerned a better label might be "victim worthiness catagorization fatigue". It isn't envy but fatigue. While I believe that comparing and rating holocausts against some standard is a poor way to spend ones time I don't know why you would use the term envy the way you do. I have absolutely no envy in this matter, nor do any NA writers that I am aware of, but I am tired of the way our culture rates the worthiness of victims. I can't speak to Muslim or Arab "holocaust envy" as I don't feel I am familiar enough with their situation to do so but my initial reaction is to find that assertion less than compelling.

Fatigue is probably the best word for it. Can you imagine anyone but a raving lunatic telling someone who is jewish directly to their face that "yes, the holocaust was terrible but WWII drew the US much more into world affairs and allowed for the rebuilding and modernizing of Europe and Japan as well as serving to increase the rate of technological advances so in the end it was all for the best"? NA's are told this all the time and it is considered an accurate historic appraisal by most people. I've seen it written on this list as well. This engenders fatigue (and anger) but certainly not envy. The Nazi atrocities were really only unique in their technological application.

Steinberg is wrong when he writes: "And it was part of the special horror of the Holocaust that everything about its victims but the bare datum of their Jewishness was obliterated before the actual living Jews, personal lives and family histories stripped away with their clothing, were obliterated themselves."

.. . . .

Why shouldn't we initially consider the spreading of smallpox among the Mandan as intentional rather than unintentional? While I agree the record does not support Churchills assertions in this instance I see no reason to assume any instances of infectious disease spreading among NA's are unintentional unless proven otherwise. I believe just the opposite, they should be considered intentional until proven to be otherwise. I like Churchill's work but after reviewing the evidence it is obvious that he has either made an initial error that he refuses to acknowledge and correct or else he made shit up to suit his needs. It's very sad.

After reading the Investigative Committee Findings Report I am a bit surprised by the plagiarism findings. Those are really crappy conclusions. Churchill is obviously guilty of fabrication and falsification as well as failure to comply with established standards so I don't know why the committee felt compelled to throw in the plagiarism. It is far from obvious that he is guilty of anything other than the failure to comply with established standards regarding authors names on publications. In light of the rather significant body of work he has amassed it is disingenuous to focus on such minute, insignificant and otherwise explainable errors. The committee simply chose to disbelieve Churchill's explanation, not because of any overwhelming evidence, but for reasons they have kept to themselves.

John Thornton

----------

Even leaving the Holocaust and its 12 million victims
(including the Red Army POWs, Communists, homosexuals,
Roma, _and_ Jews), who on earth would say that WWII
with its remaining, say 40 million dead, was "all for
the best"? Also conisdering that "increasing the rate
of technology advance" led to the creation and use of
atomic weapons? This is bizarre. It would be cruel and
insensitive to say to a Jew, "the destruction of
European Jewry is an insignificant footnote;" worse to
say "it was justified by its unintended consequences"
-- just as it would be insulting to say to a native
American similar things. Or to assert them inother
contexts. Because, after all, the destruction of the
Native Americans (far more certainly that WWII) did
lead to the unification and modernizing of the US and
increase in the rate of technological progress. Do you
think that makes, e.g., Wounded Knee or the Trail of
Tears justified? I don't think so.
-------
The Nazi atrocities were really only unique in their technological application.
-----
I'm not an advocate of the theory that the Holocaust
of the Jews was uniquely evil, not comparable to any
other evil act, etc. But first, please note that a
great lot of the killing -- maybe half of it -- was
not done in the killing factories with any specially
advanced or unique technology but by old fashioned
methods of mass shooting by the Einsatzgruppen in the
invasion of Russia. The Red Army POWs (3 million of
them) were simply left to starve or worked to death as
slave labor. (Stalin had most the survivors shipped
offto the gulag, btw.) It is really the scale of the
Holocaust (including all the victims, Jews and others)
that in part makes it unique as well as the
application of mass production -- destruction? --
techniques to many millions of deaths, also the wierd
irrationality of the thing -- the killing machine was
kept running while Germany was on the ropes, essential
war resources like trains were devoted to its ends
taht could have been used to, for example, attain the
end of the saner Nazis of a seperate peace with the
West by holding off the Russians; valuable slave labor
simnply wasted.
----
……. Quote snipped
-------
This is demonstrably wrong. THe Nazis kept scrupulous
records of all the victims of the camps. Theyw ere
German, after all, bureaucratic and pendantic to a
fault. At the Jewish Burial Societ in Prague I saw an
exhibit of Children's art from Theriesenstadt (their
model camp,a tansit poiunt to Auschwitz for many W.
European Jews) with the names, birthplaces, birthdates
and death dates of the artists: Francois Rubel, b.
Lyon 1930, d. Auschwitz, 1943, and so forth. All from
German records. In a synagogue nearby there is
inscribed on the wall the names of the Jews
"transported" from Prague -- where do you think they
got those names? German records. I've seen exemplars
of the cards the Germans used to record the data on
their victims, processed on IBM machines, btw, there's
a book on IBM's complicity in the Holocaust; they took
a lot more data than that. Very Teutonic.

The victims of the Einsatzgruppen were another story,
they were simply erased, shot and dumped in mass
graves, but these also included Communists (see the
"Komissar Befehl" or Commissar Order) and others in
Russia as well, even if the Jews were the main victims
there.
> -------
>
> > Another reason is that a combination of moralism and capitalism tends to have us believe that intentional wrongs are more of a problem than unintentional wrongs. A case can be made that,
> morally speaking, intentional wrongs are worse than unintentional wrongs.

Well, it makes the people who commit them worse people and more culpable.
--------
But, in terms of consequences, unintentional wrongs are often much worse than
> > intentional wrongs. Some can be induced to understand this point intellectually, but many find it unsatisfying, trapped as they are in conventional morality.
-----
The distinction is this: unintentional or unintended
wrongs, if sytstematic, indicate a bad system,
regardless of whether the people who benefit friom it
or run it are bad people. Intentional wrongs indicate
(though they are not conclusive proof) that the people
commit them are bad. We may be interested for various
reasons in punishing intentional wrongs (as I have
argued), but the main target for the left is the bad
system.
------

> > > > I suspect that these two reasons led Ward Churchill to develop his apparent belief in, for instance, a case of an intentional spreading of smallpox where he couldn't find written records
> for it. (I don't think he deliberately tried to lie -- he probably talked himself into believing it, as many -- including scholars -- do about what they want to believe.)
-----
Self deception is no excuse for scholarly sloppiness.
--------

Read carefully. Michael is not saying that the Nazis didn't keep the records of their victims. He's saying that concrete details of humanity were stripped away from them and that they were reduced to categories -- Jews, Homosexuals, etc. -- in the eyes of the Nazis bent on dehumanization.

On 5/18/06, andie nachgeborenen wrote:
> But, in terms of consequences, unintentional wrongs are often much worse than intentional wrongs. Some can be induced to understand this point intellectually, but many find it unsatisfying, trapped as they are in conventional morality.
>-------
> The distinction is this: unintentional or unintended wrongs, if sytstematic, indicate a bad system, regardless of whether the people who benefit friom it or run it are bad people. Intentional wrongs indicate (though they are not conclusive proof) that the people commit them are bad. We may be interested for various reasons in punishing intentional wrongs (as I have argued), but the main target for the left is the bad system.
-----------
I agree with you, of course. I'm just pointing out that many people
-- even many leftists -- in the United States today find just blaming
the system emotionally unsatisfying. Hence the popularity of
narratives of planned, intentional genocides. And that popularity
actually plays into the hands of the Right.

--
Yoshie

---------

> .....increase in the rate of technological progress. Do you think that makes, e.g., Wounded Knee or the Trail of Tears justified? I don't think so.
-------
Which was exactly my point. It would be considered extremely bizarre to claim "it was all for the best" and only a raving lunatic would make such a claim and direct that statement to someone jewish. No one would do such a thing. Notice that you state that it would be just as insulting to say something similar to a NA but the fact is such things are said everyday in history classes all over the US. NA's are repeatedly told to their face that "they really do have to admit it was all for the best." Go to a local high school and middle school and ask to see a copy of their history textbooks. "Regretable", "unavoidable", "accidental", "in spite of good intentions", and "it all worked out for the best in the end" is exactly what you'll find. Dig through the archives
and you'll find some of these same claims made on this list.
------
> The Nazi atrocities were really only unique in their technological application.
> -----
> I'm not an advocate of the theory that the Holocaust of the J....... holding off the Russians; valuable slave labor simnply wasted.

But the scale was not unique and the fatigue comes from hearing this over and over again. I imagine you are familiar with the Taino people. From 1493 to 1507 somewhere between 4 to 7 million Taino people (Bartolome de Las Casas estimated 3 to 4 million at the time) were deliberately exterminated by the Spanish. How, other than the technology used, is this different than the 5 to 8 millions Jews exterminated in the Holocaust? The Taino people are extinct. It was successful as genocides go. They were replaced by slaves from Africa because they were, in that situation, easier to control. How many cultures were actually exterminated by the Nazi's? Dozens of cultures were deliberately erased in the invasion of the America's and the attempted extermination of its indigenous people.

"Holocaust envy" has nothing to do with how people feel about this but fatigue certainly does. The shoah is not unique unless you feel European victims of atrocities are somehow more worthy victims than Native peoples. I imagine you don't consciously believe that. What in the scale of the shoah is so different from what happened to the Taino? How was the shoah more irrational than unleashing packs of dogs on groups of people and betting on the outcome? Using live NA's to "test" the sharpness of knives? Riding on them like pack animals for sport? Roasting them alive on a spit or hacking children into pieces and feeding them to their dogs? Slave labor simply wasted? Read Bartolome de Las Casas writings from the period and tell me how this slaughter is somehow of a lesser scale. It was not an occasional soldier or band of soldiers misbehaving but rather the wholesale and systematic torture and extermination of an entire people.

While the overall history of the post-Columbian attempted extermination of NA's took ~300 years it also took the lives of some 18+ million people. I know of no other extermination attempt that was as continuous or nearly successful since the NA population in 1900 was ~240,000. Each holocaust was necessarily different since the duration, timeframe, and rational were different but to claim one over the other as greater in scale or more abhorent is both pointless and counterproductive. Doing so is to assess the worthiness of the victims whether this ones intention or not. I find the idea that Muslims, Native Americans, Arabs or any group are suffering from "holocaust envy' an offensive idea. I don't expect you to change your mind and stop thinking of the shoah as you expressed here;

" It is really the scale of the Holocaust (including all the victims, Jews and others) that in part makes it unique as well as the application of mass production -- destruction? -- techniques to many millions of deaths, also the weird irrationality of the thing"

It is my experience that people seldom change their opinions of such things. Why I am writing such a lengthy reply is not at all clear to me. Perhaps it is the only way I can deal with the weariness generated by statements such as the above. This is probably written for my benefit more than anyone elses.

John Thornton

commitee thing: There is no question that John Smith was brutal in his treatment of Indians and interested in having English settlers colonize New England. However, the evidence suggests that he viewed the native population as an important source of labor. As Salisbury explains,
Smith "would use military repression in order to force the natives to work for their colonial masters." The evidence that Smith wanted to use Indians as a labor force contradicts Professor Churchill's contention that he wanted to see them wiped out.

====================

All true.

But by the post Civil War era Slotkin focuses on in
"Gunfighter Nation", these dreams of enslavement were
a thing of the forgotten past.

Westward expansion (as every school child used to
know) was the battle cry and the native peoples were
perceived as being an obstacle in need of quick and
decisive removal.

Slotkin starts his work by examining the mythological
assumptions tightly coiled about Frederick Jackson
Turner's address to the World Columbian Exposition on
July 12, 1893 titled "The Significance of the Frontier
in American History."

Nearly all of our subsequent pop cultural notions
about the West, and the native people's place in it
(including the vanished Indian meme Dennis Claxton
pointed out), can be found in this late 19th century
speech.

the US'
existence is celebrated (without reservation by
'conservatives' and with caveats, of varying strength,
by culturally sensitive 'liberals') as an achievment.

And yet, an ocean of blood was spilled and a mountain
of skulls were crushed. How do you reconcile this
horrific fact with the (from the point of view of many
- or, most of us) positive elements of the US' arrival
on the scene?

By saying, in so many words, that although this
destruction was 'regrettable' it's worked out well
enough (the freedoms and all).

In his book "Gunfighter Nation" (1998, Univ. of
Oklahoma Press), Richard Slotkin traces the evolution
of American attutudes towards Native Americans; from
vermin that must be exterminated (the 'Indian Wars'
period) to "noble savages" who, sadly, had to be
removed to make way for a great nation's rise.

This is deeply woven into the collective American
consciousness (well, at least that portion of it that
bothers to think about the matter at all).

.d. monroelab.com

It is worthwhile remembering that the slogan "Go West, Young Man" is not all that separate from the slogan, "The only good Indian is a dead Indian."

And that latter slogan surely ranks in importance with any of the more polite slogans of u.s. (e pluribus unum; in god we trust; etc.).

Carrol

Thanks. I was pretty sure that he'd finally acknowledged -- in spite of the disingenuous press release when the controversy hit the fan -- that he really did mean that everyone including janitors are culpable in one way or another. He lays it out in the second piece and in a footnote says that, yes, he too should would have been just as guilty as anyone else on one of the planes and, thus, deserving of the same fate as those on the plane.

He engages in the kind of thinking Doug has criticizes here: the all or nothing, you're the oppressed or you're an oppressor thinking. I have been criticizing that at the blog on a number of levels, which Carrol called a 'pissing match' and which I've been calling the "more oppresseder than thou" sweepstakes, arguing that it emanates from a (naive) standpoint epistemology.

Incidentally, I was reading Judith Butler's _Gender Trouble_ over the weekend and she takes as one point of her analysis a criticism of the existentialism Jaspar's engaged in. She moves on to a critique of radical French feminism as well -- in its attempts to locate women's standpoint 'outside of history'. but, hey, blahbeddy blah blah blah.She moves between each of these two positions, forging an alternative approach to try to understand the dynamics of power as not simply about power v. powerlessness.

ENCORE:
http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/archives/2006/05/02/
"If you throw them out, what good will come of it?"
-----------
People travel back and forth to Mexico all the time, legals as well as illegals. Deportation rates spike in mid-December because people turn themselves in to get the free ride home. They are willing to pay the price to return (typically $1,500 at the border, along with some hard walking still a good deal at half the full price) to get home for Christmas and then return to their jobs later. A program that offered legal status to people applying in Mexico rather than inthe US would trigger a huge flood of temporary (thank God) returnees, who would be legal afterwards, and who would be in a position to demand fair pay.
-----------
"The only way to get rid of illegals entirely is to create a total surveillance police state, which would be immensely expensive and very difficult for many reasons."
-----------
No, actually. The surveillance is from legal immigrants and working people, who turn them in to tip lines constantly. About 70% of our tips come in in semi-literate Spanish. They don't like the competition.
--------
"What would Native Americans have said as they over looked the landing near the Mayflower or similar ship? “A lot of ‘illegal’ puritan immigrants coming from Europe! Where will we put them all?”
---------
"The status of the land that they occupy is “illegal”, treaties were broken time after time, genocide enacted on the Native Americans with little regard to legality. Land stolen time after time."
-------
What have you done with the real modernityblog? What a load of half-witted nonsense.

What "would" the Pequot have said when th English showed up? Why wonder - actions speak louder than words. They decided not to wipe them out, because they were useful for trade goods and for entertainment. For one thing, their ugly-ass language sounds hilarious. Who next? Is "modernit" seriously suggesting that the English pushed in on the Iroquois, the pre-eminent military power on the continent at the time? That is too batshit delusional even to comment on.
---------
"treaties were broken time after time" and quite often negotiated in bad faith from the very beginning. A prime example is the way the Tsalagi notoriously sold land in the Carolinas they didn't even control, let alone have any defensible claim to, kicking off decades of bloodshed and strife. Cheating a bunch of big, blond Saxons is hardly sporting, but maybe the money was just too good to pass up.
---------
"Land stolen time after time." You at least got this part correct, by mistake though, I am sure. An example is the huge war between the Lakota and the US over the Black Hills, which the Lakota and Cheyenne had just recently driven the Absaroka out of after themselves being driven out of Minnesota by the immigrant/invading Ojibwe from Ontario. The point is that the land got "stolen" (the accurate term would have been "taken") many times.
--------
"Given that they were a bunch of primitve savages they probably would have worshipped the Europeans as gods "
---------
WTF? The Americans were primitive? As opposed to people who never bathed and who were ignorant of simple agricultural techniques?

Posted by: Jim darachmore@msn.com at May 5, 2006 09:15 PM

rock dust news

2006-04-20T01:10:00.000-07:00

http://www.remineralize.org/fyfe_rocksforcrops.php the father of agrogeology in Brazil 2004 (not exactly news but the rest is of this item is from the last few months)

dirtdoctor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6...
dirtdoctor.com/forum/..=Mineral+Man 5 posts so far by a master gardener from the Rutgers U NJ and ishmael(dotcom) reader strikes up conversation here since last januari

http://www.pitandquarry.com/..=315665 rock dust is soil building community fuel and keeps you right busy making it too. In this editorial aggregates (dusts) are called soil additive but as I indicated, this stuff of life, if anything deserves such a name, is more . ..errr.. fundamental (in the good sense for a change) than that.

remineralize.org/newforum/forum_entry.php?id=203 dust byproduct in norway goes to waste so far but now some folks are gonna test it
http://tribes.tribe.net/remineralizeearth has 34 members now the dynamo there likes dynamotive.com (green fuels)
http://home.pacbell.net/chipl/SocialTheoryDevelopmentPortal.html

http://www.uoguelph.ca/rocks/ rocks for crops (phosphates in ((sub-saharan)) africa)
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~geology/rocks_for_crops/ Peter van Straaten a whole booklenght and thorough survey of all sorts of rocks in africa by country (repeat mention and well worth it)

checking tribe.net for permaculture (2000 mentions sortable by date or relevance) I click a google ad (very rarely do indeed) and find a very slick piece of marketing: http://www.woodsforall.org/ 50 pounds makes you co-owner of a woodscapestretch and it funds good website makers too. woodsforall.org/taldrum/message_board/index.html#blog the blog starts halfway down the page and 3 quarters down is a press section, no registering required to comment; there are biodiversity and folklore sections too.

www.wewantrealfood.com

http://www.foodnavigator.com/news/ng.asp?n=65812-minerals-nutrients-vegetables februari article about the Seer Centre in Scotland

remineralize.org/news.html Most of the above courtesy Joanne's newspage.

godawful zioviolence

2006-01-19T01:03:00.000-08:00

All comments to an Item at Mary's (about Rabbis that hurt good neighbourly relations) so far:

Excelet article. fantastic blog. please keep up the excellent writing.
Edward Ott | Homepage | 01.18.06 - 10:29 am | #

You will find quite a lot of these translated from the hebrew press at:
http://www.aad-online.org/2005/ e...mainenglish.htm

I particularly like the sub-section (clickable from the right hand column) 'Intellectual Extremism'.

Well, I would, wouldn't I?
Rowan Berkeley | 01.18.06 - 11:31 am | #

yes, AAD is good.
thecutter | Homepage | 01.18.06 - 12:23 pm | #

mirrorreverse of supremacy sowing is the supremacy seeking semite; in Holland jobless Berbers are often, perhaps even mostly seen as the victim card pulling (semi-)semites (and why not? Pampering ((getting jobs making it rather difficult to save, especially if you insist on status symbols like 'merkkleding' = fancy clothes)) is torture and suffocation) living in the 'achterstandsbuurten' = sections of a city with a lag, full of 'kansarmen' = poor in choice - illustrating the all or nothing mindset that makes egoism lucrative and trying to reckon with/be accountable to all affected damn near prosecutable.

Palestinians better dig up the healthy secular permacultural roots (and/or) better yet point to the permacultural shoots?) of Zionism (Palis were shown singing in greenhouses on dutch tv after the gaza evacuation) in the same way Beckerath had to sign letters with heil hitlers to ward off moronic questions about them). Nearly 2 years ago I noted that a certain similarity between soviet days and us policy was evident (rather late really if you've seen Eustace Mullins' work nearly 20 years ago).

Yesterday, a beatiful man (world champ in some martial discipline) gets to say (in beautiful and real dutch, none of the rebellious intonations, no cutting gestures or anything. .. .that's not to say I would like to speak a word or two with him about agression*) that a neighbourhood on the edge of amsterdam (where I considered buying a garden 6 years ago) has 70.000 2nd generation immigrants and only one youthcenter.

Right after that, our stupid ('keep us all together') type of platitude spouting Amsterdam mayor (type of jew that is dilute enough to lose some of the ugly features; same type they sent to holland to bring us the 'suit yourselves, miss the boat if you must' message regarding afghanistan missions ((the agressive ones are political unfeasible; the haggling is over clear differences between de- and constructive invasiveness all such deliberation delay caused a threat of sanctions by way of Bremer, yes, the Paulian, former dutch ambassador)) was given precious monopolisticlique mass media time to yet again apply what I call the 'thunder stealing strategy'; mouth a few more and more exprejudices as we go along being so richly supplied with illustrations of (to the chagrin of the semi-ts who claim this happens to the exclusion of, in unfair proportions, are fearmongering of a kind they completely dissociate themselves with, etcetera#) of the right but don't take any such measures; keep telling them all at once to go to school).

More useful would be a course in autonomy; Dutch life in the simple handtool brandishing settler days of self sufficiency and communal stuff like dyke building (to be replaced with fun rock grinding).

I'd not force a person without aptitude due to little or no cultural background in intellectual pursuits to stay put in school benches; I'd give all folks in the mentioned concrete deserts a gar
p | 01.18.06 - 4:09 pm | #

Can i make one poin most of thoes rabbis are spehardi arab jews so much about you theory about it being all ashkenzai jews are the racist ones
Anonymous | 01.18.06 - 4:26 pm | #

I'd not force a person without aptitude due to little or no cultural background in intellectual pursuits to stay put in school benches; I'd give all folks in the mentioned concrete deserts a garden sorta the size of the schrebergarten in the Viennese garden quarters (big enough to have a family fruit tree or two and always a choice to spend time in wellstocked libraries than follow obligatory courses.

*Same goes for Shamir, who's defence of tactic diversity, similar to that of ChuckO the infoshop starter is (was, over a year ago) illustrated with stories about

#nobody never did nor does nuttin; they are not responsible for each other except when impunity/opportunity calls; nobody knew nuttin about the real threat to van Gogh .. .. a real soap on which passed through short media circuitry last week, a fella who said lots knew and were involved denied after a few days and claimed he was put under pressure. I find it real odd none of these idiots knew any of the maroccans Theo van Gogh worked with (LOTS) and vice versa. Wish he would have found the support from the circles round the fella I first mentioned. Wish my exquisitely deep dutchness would have culminated in a change of mind on Bush and life for as well as movies with Theo.
p | 01.18.06 - 4:28 pm | #

fixed a few mistakes

I'd not force a person without aptitude due to little or no cultural background in intellectual pursuits to stay put in school benches; I'd give all folks in the mentioned concrete deserts a garden sorta the size of the schrebergarten in the Viennese garden quarters (big enough to have a family fruit tree or two) and always a choice to spend time in wellstocked libraries rather than follow obligatory courses.

*Same goes for Shamir, who's defence of tactic diversity, similar to that of ChuckO the infoshop starter and and Ward Churchill, is (was, over a year ago) consisted of illustrations from early christianity: male and warlike half bringing justice, compassionate one bringing mercy, side by side (bull of course . .. I tried to theorize about such and for all I care named christian type crisis solving while NATO and Soros hit socialism: send out women with carriers to distribute handtools, knowledge whatnot and keep convincing strenght ready to pounce and punish if waylaid); I agree a dual course must be sought but this bloodshed bilge isnt any better than the stuff 'anglospherians' spout, about the wars between free and slave armies); all crap really cause the question is not just where and when to be soft or hard but must also and for completeness sake include what you will be soft and hard on/to (hard to the rock, soft to the seedlings; If luxurious times (like some of what I call mine, making a near as possible perfect website about it))) isn't used to draw the attention of present bloodshedders by pre-emptation of future flows (substitute muds and mists; bring back the 1000 year old cedars of lebanon, greens of the sahara, etcetera) fails to do so, even with guys like me around; I consider it all spark glamour and groomery misplaced waste, a sin and missed chance.

I think my interpretation of the gospels is as valid as those that hammer on whatever Jesus might have done with a sword if he used that word at all meant by it (never mind the monomyth aspects now cause heroism IS a very tangible thing as anybody with a half way decent father knows.... wish my kids did/will).

Destructive idiots (pyromaniacs, chronically dismissives, dissers i think they think themselves proudly and other reactionaries) are up for the chaingang ball park like the ones I have in mind but for starters or else, send the worst of them to the dutch or maroccan armies (their choice on a 3 strikes you're in basis) and the others) but give the others a real stay/anchor root, the type that privileged folks like me never even got cause church, commerce and parental authority rules and kids must follow gardening orders before inheriting anything.
p | 01.18.06 - 5:34 pm | #

Piet, the context of universal and random labour migration, everywhere except in the Jewish zones of the world - not just IzRealHell, but any Jewish enclave anywhere, is protected by the fear of anti-semitism against incursions by have nots - is what is so hard to explain.

I have shown, I think, that the myth of anti-semitism, endlessly repeated and amplified, allowed and even encouraged to become a self-fulfilling prophecy to some extent, is what makes this contradiction occur, but what is it that lies behind the myth?

I think we are allowed to say that Jewishness invites its own nemesis, quite universally, and that zionism is just one modality of this nemesis which always masquerades as a 'solution to the problem of anti-semitism' but always ends up making it worse.

But what is it in our spiritual constitution - all of us - that creates the Jew? certainly he did not fall out of the sky or spring from the ground at God's command. He is our reflection. And we are his.

Hence the importance of Mahler's obscure Hegelian lucubrations.
Rowan Berkeley | 01.18.06 - 6:05 pm | #

http://www.aftenposten.no/ englis...icle1196096.ece Condi to Norway: "Buy from Israel or we'll make you pay" (NO via Gorilla)
p | 01.18.06 - 6:29 pm | #

zioviolution advocated by supporters of Hirsi Ali will be happy with her nobel nomination.
p | 01.18.06 - 6:30 pm | #

lucubrate this a wee tad clearer please:

"Piet, the context of universal and random labour migration, everywhere except in the Jewish zones of the world - not just IzRealHell, but any Jewish enclave anywhere, is protected by the fear of anti-semitism against incursions by have nots - is what is so hard to explain."

For once I can return a favor and say that je ne comprends pas
p | 01.18.06 - 6:36 pm | #

Why anyone would want a prize donated by the inventor of dynamite beats me.

A doom filled essay by the gray eminence BEHIND Horst Mahler, on "America the Anti-Nation", here:

http://www.deutsches-kolleg.org/ ...tureandfall.htm
Rowan Berkeley | 01.18.06 - 6:37 pm | #

What I mean is that just the same dynamic forces everyone except the Jews to open themselves to free labour migration in and out of their erstwhile homelands, as allows the Jews to demand the exact opposite - no one in THEIR homeland except under their control.

In both cases it is the ever present shadow of anti semitism and especially the holocaust myth - on the one hand it allows Jews to demand super secure enclaves and a super secure homeland, and on the other, it allows them to demand that everyone else be deprived of this, for fear that these other peoples will constitute themselves as non jewish, and hence potentially anti jewish, national blocs - especially the germans!
Rowan Berkeley | 01.18.06 - 6:42 pm | #

Just to let you chickens know, early doors, that there is a 'Great Debates' programme tonight on BBC Radio 4 on the different approaches to achieving racial equality and justice, between the methods of Martin Luther King and Malcolm
Dr Martin Luther King v Malcolm X
The demi-g-ds of the ISM have adopted one of Malcolm's motto as their own, 'by any means necessary'

- last weeks debate between Erasmus ( who is a personal fave of mine) and the original nasty old Martin Luther, viz a viz 'freedom' and 'predestination' as the Bible presents it, was ok actually -

Also. you might enjoy the BBC Radio 4's In Our Time which is an exploration of themes by leading experts to do with all sorts of interesting ideas theories etc
joe90 | Homepage | 01.18.06 - 7:01 pm | #

ok, get it now, so: Piet, the context of universal and random labour migration, everywhere except in the Jewish zones of the world - not just IzRealHell, but any Jewish enclave anywhere, is protected by the fear of anti-semitism against incursions by have nots - is what is so hard to explain.

should be:

Piet, the context of universal and random labour migration, everywhere except in the Jewish zones of the world - not just IzRealHell, but any Jewish enclave anywhere, WHICH ARE 'protected' by the fear of anti-semitism ARE OPEN TO incursions by have nots - is what is so hard to explain.

or

Piet, the context of universal and random labour migration is what is so hard to explain.

in the Jewish zones of the world - not just IzRealHell, but any Jewish enclave anywhere - incursions by have nots are brutally beaten down to squash and yet in the name of anti-semitism (since it evokes the latter which it wouldn't were it not for worldwide double standards from which the wall will not effectively distract).
p | 01.18.06 - 7:34 pm | #

In the Western attempts at Reform of the Calvinist type, the factor of social adeptness in the community was made absolute and the social success or failure of the individual taken as proof of his eternal salvation or his eternal damnation. The forceful establishment of this view of the World in its religious, World-political, and social-political forms, cleared the way for the transformation of the World into a refuse heap. By means of Capitalism and Democracy, all traditional arrangements are destroyed, the various peoples are converted into the refuse pile of the World Populatiom and the folk-economies into the trash heap of the management of World resources.

Capitalism and Democracy have an uncurbed destructive power if they are not limited by thought patterns which are essentially foreign to them and are able to display their atomistic-quantitative peculiarity undisturbed. This atomistic World-view is concentrated totally upon the units of currency, by which Capital counts its funds and its winnings, and upon the number of votes by which democratic potential for rulership and its increase in power are measured. Democracy and Capital have this atomistic quantity-oriented thinking in common; it ends in the destruction of all goods and all peoples through their transformation into units of currency and into voters. The unification of currency for all World capital funds and the universal right of suffrage for all citizens of the World populatiom are the logical end-stage of the capitalistic-democratic way of thinking. In its estimation, a democracy is all the more legitimate, the greater the number of voters, and that is why democracy does not mean the control of a people over itself, but the destruction of all genuine peoples, who are then viewed as but a minority (as, perhaps, the Boers are seen today) whose rule over themselves is not permitted and must be sanctioned.

(op. cit.)
Rowan Berkeley | 01.18.06 - 7:43 pm | #

looks like John Zube the panarchist has an accolade he will never say stuff like he did about me about: 'with friends like these .. ..'

richard (looks a bit like that diplomat I mentioned being on tv yesterday):

This means that I would endorse any kind of Government as long as membership would be on a voluntary basis, at the expense only of its supporters. A communist Government for the communists, a 'welfare' Government for welfarists, a limited Government for minarchists, no Government for anarchists, or Muslim Government for Muslims, Catholic for Catholics, Buddhist for Buddhists etc., and all the varieties in between, all on a voluntary basis. That would put an end to so much ideological and religious antagonism. People would finally have the Government they want (or none), no matter where they lived. That is political freedom to me.*

I advocate peaceful means in order to reach peace. In other words, to cite Le Grand E. Day:

"Let it be clearly understood that this system must work and grow within the legal means of the already-established governments. The tools needed to bring about multigovernment are communications, not bloodshed; education, not violence; persuasion, not revolution. There is nothing in this thesis that advocates, suggests, or implies the overthrow of any existing government by force or violence."

Piet: I did not really like his way of casting Beckerath et al in present day lingo (last oct in savehaven) but as he says, to each his own.
p | 01.18.06 - 8:10 pm | #

down with the co-optation of co-operative capitalism
pimpeach | 01.18.06 - 8:18 pm | #

let's hear it for a scot: http://thumpingthetub.blogspot.com/
pimpeach | 01.18.06 - 8:27 pm | #

--------

Noam Chomsky said Iran would be “crazy” not to develop nuclear weapons. Speaking Tuesday to an audience of over 1,000 at University College, Dublin — Ireland’s largest university — Chomsky said, “No sane person wants Iran to have nuclear weapons,” but added that the Islamic republic had to respond to alleged threats from Israel and the United States, both nuclear powers. Chomsky, a professor emeritus of linguistics at MIT, is in Ireland this week for a series of speaking engagements.

-- “No sane person wants Iran to have nuclear weapons” eh? speak for yourself chumpsky
Rowan Berkeley | 01.18.06 - 9:11 pm | #

A Jewish American’s experience in Zionist Israel:

A Christian is permitted to preach the gospel in a church building, but for the clergy or anyone to even tell anyone about teachings in Bible outside the church building will bring a 5 years prison sentence.

For a Christian to give a Bible or religious article to a Jew will also bring a 5 years sentence. Even an act of kindness by a Christian toward a Jew, such as giving a gift of food, can be interpreted as trying to convert the Jew to Christianity and can bring a 5 years prison sentence.

This same law of religious suppression applies to those of the Islamic faith who in an act of kindness give a gift of any kind to a Jew. A 5 year prison sentence can result.

http://www.holywar.org/txt/berns.../ bernstein.html

Well, I know the ADL propagandists call him ‘liar’ and ‘self-hating Jew’.
Shaukat | 01.18.06 - 9:32 pm | #

I thought Prof Chomsky was - but what is it you yourself mean, Rowan ?
joe90 | Homepage | 01.18.06 - 10:15 pm | #

In case your wondering Rowan, I agree with the good Prof - but being an extremist I go further and say that both nuclear weapons, and the nuclear industries are all immoral -

- nuclear research is all fine, grandy and dandy - where else would be able to find uses for all those lovely James Joyce Celtic-isms, such as -- 'bampots' - 'quarks' - 'jings' - 'crivvens' - and and the immortal 'help ma boab'
joe90 | Homepage | 01.18.06 - 10:58 pm | #

Great article thecutter.

This was the sort of speil that Goebbals and his pals were spouting on about, on their favourite defenceless innocent targets of German Jewish folk.

Going back to that 'Flame' article by the estimable Jeff Blankfort -

- can you image the uproar if it was an advert for the ethnic cleansing of Jewish folk from Poland - oh that's right, thats already been done hasn't it, and received the proper condemnation it deserves with the various culprits responsible punished where possible -

- and no adverts will be placed on behalf of those that deny various events associated with the Nazi ethnic cleansing of Poland -

PS although I didn't get a lot from Jeff's article on Prof Chomsky
http://www.leftcurve.org/LC29Web...es/ Chomsky.html
I think this is much better by Jeff
The Power of The Israel Lobby: Two Viewpoints
A debate between Prof. Stephen Zunes and Jeffrey Blankfort

Stephen Zunes agrees with Prof Chomsky on the idea of Israel as a US 'strategic asset'.

Anyway, I think it much better because US racism is discussed - I think that some of the folk who say they are 'anti-zionist' are just anti-Jewish racists -

- as people know, I have no problems with how people want to express themselves - unless you're being deliberately difficult and obtuse about matters then the meaning of terms are pretty much clear in the context in which they are used
joe90 | Homepage | 01.18.06 - 11:46 pm | #

peacerowan.blogspot.com seems to be coming along very nicely.

Congratulations Rowan.
Our Resident Wet | 01.19.06 - 1:34 am | #

I first got a computer - though not by my choice - about three years ago and, soon, I was revelling in an apparent ability to "talk" with people from all around the world ... who I naively imagined were being up-front, like most people are when face to face, or even on the telephone.

What a fool I was, but at least I got to know that and started to discriminate between scoundrels like like Rowan and those who are really trying to find an answer (rather than some some throw-back to such failures as Hitler, Mussolini and - FFS - Disraeli).

Are you fuckers so dense that you cannot see what what the autodidactic Rowan is doing
Our Resident Wet | 01.19.06 - 7:49 am | #

BTW "our resident wet" has actually killed and has actually been part of some of what you wankers - not least Rowan - only pontificate about.

Geez joe. You are a vegetarian, right?

Get real!

From where, the fuck, in Scotland, are you going to get a vegetarian diet, unless from a supermarket which imports vegetables from around the world?

Dream world/nightmare world ... a nightmare world in which runts like Rowan can plot to mount a take-over, just like Mussolini, Hitler and GWB have ... and ALL of them failures, albeit that Rowan has been a great success in this puddle of a blog.
Our Resident Wet | 01.19.06 - 8:05 am | #

"peacerowan.blogspot.com seems to be coming along very nicely. Congratulations Rowan.
Our Resident Wet | 01.19.06 - 1:34 am | #"

-- goodness me, Gerry, have you and Iblis started a blog simply to attack me? I am sincerely flattered, now I know I have arrived as a real presence in the blogosphere.
Rowan Berkeley | 01.19.06 - 8:07 am | #

For connoisseurs of IzRealHell's bizarre political scene, I can offer the following, gleaned from my listening to Israel Army Radio : the mizrachi religious party, Shas, has launched a new jingle which appears to take advantage of the popular confusion between oriental jews and sephardi (spanish) ones - it begins with a couple of flamenco guitar arpeggios and a chorus shouting "olé!"
Rowan Berkeley | 01.19.06 - 8:51 am | #

13 link post (wide ranging; wildly so in fact; last one is a favorite tune)

2005-12-21T10:57:00.000-08:00

The extra fat christmas issue of the fat dutch right wing weekly 'elsevier' has pictures of that baby face billionaire media mongrel who says his next station will be 'wide', which assertion contain hopes he manages to dash in appending his kind of example (from beer business): ..., Heineken can exist besides/alongside Amstel (illustrative of the one track stupidity in Dutch media land (retch!!! Bleaghhhh!!)

livejournal.com/users/imomus/157573.html on John Lennon; he obviously has some jew ishness about him, particularly noticable in a frontal photo of him here.

inknowvate.com/inknowvate/sacred_geometry_in_architecture.htm a google page

virginia in my eyes by Robbie Schaefer - the band: Eddie from Ohio http://www.efohio.com/ (another sublime song heard on folkalley); such a generous band (and tight tight tight)!!!!!! Their jukebox is filled to the brim (fiddle back ((to the song you just heard)) and forth if it don't go to the next great song automatically), they've put out a choice of more than a handful of albums so far. Oh by the way, the juke doesn't have the song that led me here but the guitar player is such a strong and consistently in character one I was curious for every next song all the way through.

http://mailman.lbo-talk...20051212/027406.html
Chinese police raid gay festival

Counter Terrorism Online Community * Eshoju.org... Vedik Topic
dewi contributes: Aditi Chaturvedi Many centuries before prophet Muhammad and the destructive advent of Islam, Arabia or Arabistan was an extremely ... eshoju.org/modules...=68 -93k

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bibleandquran/message/27229 (of 63407 as of dec 16) From: "Timothy W. Dunkin " Date: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:05 pm Subject: The truth about the "Vedic" civilisation

I don't know enough Indian history to tell if Tim is refuting Chaturvedi effectively or not but the fact he signs with Timothy Abd al-Masih makes me doubt his objectivity. Anyway, he recommends Drs. D. Devakala and A. Harris might be of interest to you,as would Nirad Chaudhuri's "Hinduism",

chowk.com/show_interactor_page.cgi?membername=rsridhar quotes chaturvedi approvingly and says this person is female

russia.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=1451&pagenumber=1 posts a swords chapter here and also a long piece by Sudheer Birodkar

http://titanium.phpwebhosting.com/..=-1 cache has the essentials of the story with the added note: "Works of P.N. Oak and Robert A. Morey have been used to compose this article." -

a similar note (here: http://avalon.wz.cz/Tajemno,energie/Vedicarabia2.htm):
Note: Works of P.N. Oak, Sita Ram Goel, Arun Shourie, Jay Dubashi, Harsh Narain and Ram Swarup have been used to compose this article. -- Original location: This story URL: vnn.org/editorials/ET0002/ET21-5523.html story available in 5 languages

reviewfocus.com/cat584/prod280992/review1.html The Two Faces of Islam : The House of Sa'ud from Tradition to Terror by stephen Schwartz reviews (5 pages worth)
Summary: Full of lies Review: First a quote from the book:
"Muhammad's message included warnings not to ignore the righteous among among the Jews and Christians, who are collectively known to Muslims as People of the Book. Islam, from its beginnings, banned compulsion in matters of faith and mandated the protection of Jews, Christians, and other religious believers. Yet Muslims are accused, largely falsely, of a savage forced Islamization of subject peoples, supposedly inspired by the narrow, fanatical, and ignorant Muhammad. The Prophet of Islam is typically described as a desert bandit who claimed to have invented a new religion on his own."

I totally disagree with this. It is a flagrant lie. Muhammad (and I refuse to call him Prophet), was violent right from beginning. In fact he was disbarred from entering Mecca for many years because of his violence and he lived in Medina many years. All these years he kept on receiving messages from Allah ... continued. He lived in a time when Arabia was overrun by Pan-Hinduic idolatrous and polytheistic and largely pacifist people. Of course you cannot be really pacifist if you are being killed and your women are being violated. Mahammad used to recieve one fifth the share of loot which Islamic killers recovered from victims. History of Islam is replete with jihadic wars whose sole aims were to fill the treasuries of many barabaric rulers (Muhammad included) with wealth obtained by ... of non-believers and to convert these peoples...Although some arguments and evidence are far fetched you cannot reject all the material Ms. Aditi Chaturvedi presents in those pages.

LBO commenter cites a Parenti book: " .. . .. SWAT, the subtitle of which reads, "Special Weapons and Tactics for the Prepared American." Published by Larry Flynt of Hustler fame, SWAT reads like pornography for gun nuts: "During penetration, the prestressed Quik-Shok projectile expands rapidly and then splits into three even sections. These segments or fragments penetrate in separate directions in an ever- widening pattern inside a soft target. Fragmentation is the main cause of tissue disruption." (Christian Parenti, "SWAT Nation,")
www.metroactive.com/papers/sonoma/07.01.99/swat1-9926.html via Yoshie

http://user.cyberlink.ch/~koenig/spermo.htm nutty stuff (I bet) on Crowley via guess who

http://www.darrellscott.com/media/Alton%20Air.mp3

Dan Winter related surfage and comment

2005-12-09T04:26:00.000-08:00

nice looking tree house

http://biogeometry.com/english/index.php swiss tv on elektrosmog (damanhur type solutions by an egyptian tv-star)

http://vortexscience.com/main/articles.php graphics of schaubergerian Russellish caliber)

escher animation

recent stuff via the junkyard/recent.html

bruce rawles has a 62 page gallery up

intimate yet spacious capture of a nice piece of new zealand

nice cloudwork there and scroll down to the little roofgarden if you do go there
metatrance.org/forum/memberlist.php most sites in this members list:
http://marie-str.com/
livejournal.com/users/rick_says/
http://eabaldwin.byregion.net/
oona-online.com/
privatesight.com/
churchofvirus.org/saints.html Darwin only is saintly (but the linklist is long)

astralpulse.com/forums/.. 100.000 posts but he usnisa neuark fo! lks seem to have bombed here (at least a 'cosmic cube' thread did)

mrdynastyempire.org/imageframe-11-20.htm gregarious reggae fella who spruces up his large image collection with pics from vitarka folks .. looks like this theocrat (declaring the whole world a -cracy) borrowed all the graphics for his own purposes pay 'tention class (ufo abduction reunion 1973 on the fourth page); pretty kitschy stuff here though, lotsa angels from here: spiritussanctus.com/

closefriends Dan winter is here too and isn't Madonna's Kabballah teacher's name Berg? -- http://pure-research.net/ has been newly added to the cube collectioneurs

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/asc2k/ via wilcox (who does music here: http://ascension2000.com/audio.htm ) at lightworker.org one of them 'tie it all together' guys using the same puzzle pieces as Winter but not mentioning him

phoenix-designs.net/decorations.htm is now analogia.org (in case you missed last time I told you) . .. .. . toys of the thoughtful kind and more: analogia.org/index.php?option..99

http://goldennumber.net

hyperstition.abstractdynamics.org../006901 trees and rhyzomes (no nicky talks not of pleasing pleach but 'strong AI'); my (60th tangential) contribution:

aaaah, this 'll be good .. ..can I watch? Blush?!!?

here's a little limbering up for you both; spectrum practice of the supreme spirally cirqhuelarious kind:

creative-harmonics.org/..vibmed/vibsm.jpg The lady has branched out from the black and white rudiments I saw at least a decade ago, matter of fact, I think we can squarely blame her for refuge in art and diy divination rather than diy dust foundatio! n ..

this is what she's up to with her money: cultures/heartsun.html

harmonics/harmonicharts.html nice rainbow systemic (ch)arts at $90 a shot (wholesale) one of 'm becomes almost entirely legible when saving and using a zoom function, on the darker one I have more luck .. . her progressions are waaaaayyyy better to follow than those of Arguelles:
FEAR DIVIDES, control divides (100BC-400AD), division seeks
DIVISION SEEKS, constancy, seeking invents, invention theorizes,
CONSTANCY LOVES, theory practices, practice deepens (1950s-1990s) Identity dissolution, terrorism, new age commerce, death of caterpillar stage, visons of new earth -- (1990s-2020s) Alchemical transmutations, disempowerment of OWL(?)
LOVE UNITES, depth imagines (22500BC), imagination embodies
UNITY CHANGES, embodiment migrates, migration settles
CHANGE FEARS, settling conflicts, conflict controls

goldenageproject.org.uk/tagriculture.html short articles and charts about the origin of agriculture (Laurence Gardner, Christian and Barbara Joy O'Brien et al) via Dan Winter, here's an overview of work by such diffusionists, prone to fabulism (with the sun as mega mekka the eagle bloodlines reach and the serpent bloodlines betray and subvert to cut a very much too long story down to size = very short): goldenageproject.org.uk/historical.html - this crowd ventures into music as well (interdisciplinary as they like to be): spv.de/eng/fieldsofthenephilim/.. (is this softish metal?)

soulinvitation.com/hellsmouth
But The Nine's influence does not extend merely to New Age channelling circles. Andrija Puharich, James Hurtak and Richard Hoagland have all lectured at the United Nations in New York. And individuals connected with The Nine are also known to have influence with Vice-President Al Gore. Of course, if The Nine really are the ancient gods of Egypt, then surely there could be fewer more significant events than their return. One may be justified in thinking that the more leading politicians who fall under their influence the better; but are they really the ancient Ennead of Egypt? Can it be that they have actually returned to sort us all out, scattering love and enlightenment from their high moral ground?
Dan quotes all of this: http://theuniversalseduction.com/..

The evidence we have gathered strongly suggests that Tom and his fellow gods originated, not in the stars, but behind closed doors as part of a CIA mind control experiment. And what happened to that experiment? Now with hundreds of thousands of devotees, some in very high places, can The Nine be deemed a success? Of course, that depends very much on what the CIA had in mind. With their subtle racist propaganda, perhaps the flaky New Age Nine should worry the hell out of us.

I found myself pondering the likes of Daniel Winter (all the easier for having had the invaluable bit of personal experience with him ((even met his father and the saw the family business)) before he self banished and vanished from turtle island soil in defiance of some sort of ridiculour plagiarism fine imposed by Stan Tenen's meru.org (who still keeps this self-discrediting bit of history at the bottom of his homepage). Tenen kinda rightly accused Dan of featuring brown aspects of ideology and indeed we find this semi-outlaw, semi-anonymous world circuit lecturer and minstrel obsessing about blood and timelines (but it takes one to know one). Let's look a little closer.

Sibling rivalry started back up and out far away in space with changing fortunes and close calls wars, innumerable battles and grounds won and lost, they mate and mutate in combos each trying to disguise differences for a temporary edge or spying and sabotage purposes, each main player purportedly known by name, a never ending stream includes all major and minor middle eastern gods pass review; Sitchin, a palestinian who stood at the base of the alien craze is the biggest guide and leading light in this narrative. If this alledged precision does not makes one very suspicious the moon story will but let me tell you what brilliant thought crossed my mind early this morn after yesterday's perusal of almanac style timeline narrative spanning 6000 years and slowing down the last 30 by way of . ..

"and finally - For Celebrating a CENTURY of Murder That is
Political America's BAD DREAM Needing Fresh Air
(SMANANIC RECAPITULATION means - Awareness Comes When the UN-Shareable is Made SHAREABLE): -

Skeleton Key to Hell's Mouth?
- we reprint: A SKELETON KEY TO THE GEMSTONE FILES (from: freedomdomain.com/assassinations/,, ) MAY 1, 1975 (To take these details of almost 100 years of political lies and murder that IS the U.S. Government - up to the present -
Implosion Group recommends finishing with: THE DEAD BODY COUNT BEHIND THE GEORGE BUSH FAMILY
at 'Bushed" & soulinvitation.com/americabushraped "

.. .. which dwells on the mob, Onassis and the Kennedys.

I think we can see Dan as a drama queen personifying all the stuff that happens on a molecular level and the serpent/eagle moon/sun opposition/enmity is nothing but .. . the gender one as shown by Otto Weininger (who's main work is to a large extent bio-chemistry), Andrew Lehman (hormone expert). Throw in Freud's and Kevin Macdonald's group psychology work and it all falls into place for me. Given that Dan is a little blocked when it comes to personal feelings (as far as I know his are always temporary) I can see why he hates the moon so much and imagines it a metal hull teeming with aliens coated and coded in dust, feeding off of worshippy sentiments, and others simply came and domesticated as well as genetically engineered us cause they wanted gold. .. ... you still with me?

ps: Dan seems to think the world of vialls.com - normally his places links very sparingly but now 50 vialls ones all together!?!?!?!

more rainbow art: gekleurde_schapen.html

The vast majority is pacifist, would like self-sufficiency, their own garden etcetera .. . . just guessing, don't take my word for it.

2005-12-04T15:03:00.000-08:00

http://newswire.indymedia.org/..

Palestians call for release of activists kidnapped in Iraq
David Ball (Beirut) 02 Dec 2005 12:16 GMT
Beirut, Lebanon

After four human rights workers were kidnapped in Iraq this week, political and religious leaders in Palestine have joined those around the world appealing for their release. Their pacifist organization has blamed the US for their kidnapping.

Prominent Palestinian leaders have appealed for the release of four human rights workers kidnapped this week in Iraq, they said at an emergency press conference held in Hebron, November 29.

The four activists with a pacifist human rights organization, Christian Peacemaker Teams (CPT), were kidnapped November 26 in Baghdad before a meeting with Muslim leaders.

"Your brothers in Palestine ask the Iraqi fighters … to release our international brothers, who have helped us in our struggle for freedom here," said Basel Masour, at the press conference which brought together Fatah, Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Palestinian Liberation Front, Hamas, Christian Peacemaker Teams, and others.

The CPT members – James Loney (41, Canada), Harmeet Singh Sooden (32, Canada), Tom Fox (54, USA), and Norman Kember (74, UK) – were kidnapped at gunpoint on November 26 in Baghdad, by an unknown group Swords of Truth.

A video aired on Al-Jazeera news showed the four hostages, and an accusation that the four were spies in Iraq under the guise of Christian activists. CPT and its Arab allies have strenuously denied the accusation, pointing to CPT's history of being committed activists in Palestine, Iraq and elsewhere.

Family members said they were relieved to see their loved ones alive and seemingly unharmed.

Christian Peacemaker Teams has operated in Iraq for several years. It has continuously opposed the US/UK occupation, and was among the first to document human rights abuses in US prisons there, particularly the notorious Abu Ghraib jail.

Opposing all forms of violence and oppression, CPT members refused US military protection and lived with Iraqi families. They remained in the country long after most foreign organizations had fled amidst escalating violence and chaos in the wake of the US invasion.

CPT has publicly blamed the US for creating the climate of oppression in which its workers were captured.

"We are angry because what has happened to our teammates is the result of the actions of the U.S. and U.K. governments due to the illegal attack on Iraq and the continuing occupation and oppression of its people," said CPT on its website.

CPT is active in violent conflict areas around the world, including Palestine, Columbia and Canada, where its members attempt to protect the oppressed by "getting in the way." Although CPT asserts that it is not a missionary organization, members believe taking sides with the oppressed is crucial to their faith.

The Palestinian statement follows another by leading Muslim clerics in Palestine and Iraq, and others by allies around the world, demanding the release of the hostages.

"They don't deserve to be kidnapped," said Palestinian student Fadi Salim. "They are not friends, they are brothers."

CPT is currently active in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, opposing the illegal Israeli separation wall, protecting farmers in their olive harvest from settlers, and escorting children to school unharmed.

CPT has said it does not wish for a military rescue operation in the event of kidnapping, as it opposes all forms of violence. Meanwhile, friends and allies are hoping and praying for the message to reach the captors: "These are the wrong people."

* * *

On a personal note, one of the hostages, James Loney, is my friend, and he has been an inspiring mentor and someone we could all learn much from about humility and principle. His tireless work for the homeless and oppressed – in Canada and around the world – is a lesson for everyone working for justice.

He told an interview once, "Just as soldiers are prepared to sacrifice their lives for the state, as a Christian who believes in non-violence I am prepared to make the same sacrifice for my non-violent beliefs.”
homepage:: http://www.socialchangenow.ca/blog

review of 'history of violence' by mrzine editress

2005-11-13T06:59:00.000-08:00

Thomas Seay wrote: I entertain the notion that the collapse of the Frontier, and its consequent internalization into people's inner lives, is the recurring theme in David Lynch's work.

Zachary wrote:
> >Hmmm, yes, I can see that. In his work, the promise
> >that capitalism, especially US capitalism, has always
> >held up clashes (more and more) with reality. This is
> >especially apparent in Mulholland Drive, where the
> >dream world seems to initially offer respite from
> >reality but eventually even that gets invaded. Death
> >is the only sanctuary from it all.

> Didn't Lynch support Reagan?
>
> Doug

Well, there is always David Cronenberg -- who is clearly more talented than David Lynch -- for leftists with a fetish for having mind and flesh invaded by all manner of things.

Cronenberg's latest, A History of Violence, is a fine deconstruction of the Western and film noir in his "realist" turn. In a feminist twist of film noir, in this film it is a man, not a woman, who has "the past," The past that the man, well played by Viggo Mortensen, thought he left behind in the East catches up with him in the West. The past in question is a history of violence, his service as a violent foot soldier for a gangster capitalist (who happens to be his brother). To defend his family and home from the long arms of the gangster capitalist, however, he ends up resurrecting an extremely efficient killing machine that he once was and finds himself at odds with his wife and teenage son, who feel betrayed by his secrecy and abhor the newly resurrected violent masculinity in him (which begins to bleed into his sex with his wife), though they love one another. The man overcomes the gangster capitalist's underlings in the West (and in the process makes his son an accomplice in giolence) and the capitalist himself in the East. Then, he comes back home. The film's ending is a tense and ambiguous scene of homecoming. His wife, son, and daughter are at dinner table. When he comes in, there is silence. After a moment that feels longer than it is, his daughter (who is too young to fully understand the meaning of trust and betrayal) makes place for him at the table. He and his wife look into each other's eyes, wordlessly, as she passes a plate to him. Fade to black.

A History of Violence has no explicit reference to the Iraq War. But you keep thinking about it, as you watch the film. There must be many homes where soldiers' homecomings are as fraught as the protagonist's in A History of Violence. Divorces are up in the military. The violent past cannot be buried and forgotten, nor can the home and hometown be insulated from the violent "outside," as the protagonist thought they could. The history of violence must be dealt with. But how? The film does not seek to answer that -- it wants the audience to think about it.

Yoshie Furuhashi
http://montages.blogspot.com
http://monthlyreview.org
http://mrzine.org
* Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:
/mahmoud-ahmadinejads-face.html
/chvez-congratulates-ahmadinejad.html
06/iranian-working-class-rejects.html

what would a place called 'protein wisdom' be about?

2005-08-24T10:35:00.000-07:00

posted at proteinwisdom.com (hawk ((territory or at least hawk)) tolerant) in order to teach them a lesson about taking chickens to market (it's a highly offensive thing to do also known as hawking); if people turn down your hawkishness and you don't set them free you'll find yourself taking them back home to roost.
proteinwisdom.com/index.php/weblog/entry/18868/ 66th comment:
excuse me, but don't most wars get fought over
A: command over testosterone-driven hierarchy heigtening search for honour and prestige?
Aa: Does the winning team have to prove it's the most violent team; can the most violent team call itself a winner
B: retaliations perceived as offensive enough to escalate these diabolic staple feeds for fundamentalities?
Bb: aforementioned 'reasoning' taken as excuse to appropriate that which the targeted party doesn't deserve/know how to use, etcetera?
C: another vicious circle: scarcity brings on the misconduct of war which causes even more of them.

Logic dictates that allowing ourselves the luxury to stop wars might leave us with enough time on our hands to start abundance; to open rock isn't just to create or shape space, but time too.
wars are fought over scarcityallowing ourselves the luxury to stop wars is easy once we start abundance . . turn war around into raw .. . turn putting life to death around into feeding life with death; feeding death into life is ever so easy; sprinkle the right sort of dust (most any fresh rockdust will do into a summer puddle big enough to last a few days and presto: reduced oxides, hydrocarbons at the humble end of a laaaaarge loooong bewildering strange trip of a chain and fresh oxygen bubbles peeping out of the freshly slipperizing stuff of life.

I don't know how much more clearly I need to say this; perhaps Cindy Sheehan's son, as his death was approaching, would have grasped the concept if he and the other six of his pals who died could have been afforded a time out somehow and by some miracle read one of the umpteen times I strewed this message around (including soldier's blogs); the company killed hundreds that day by the way according to a colleague of his who is quoted on proteinwisdom.comPosted by: p at August 23, 2005 05:19 PM (hyperstition timestamp applies to the unchanged last two alineas a day earlier; for what else I posted at protein wisdom see http://compostartist.blogspot.com )

Cambodja's greenery vs Middle Eastern deserts

2005-08-19T14:56:00.000-07:00

Is that what makes, constitutes and slips us the difference in scale of nonetheless, after discounting that, may well be very possible if not perfectly comparably genocidal mayhem?

You be the judge. .. . .to help you imagine the pictures to go along with variously arrived at viewpoints; heres a few 'vantage' points (by way of LBO-talk list posts from this month; the substance of this post also appears at the bottom of http://liecause.tripod.com/aug05.htm in blazing colour):

----------- Yo, Lance, looking through books on Cambodia yesterday at the Denver PL, legendary Australian Communist journalist, Wilfred Burchett, in a book from the 80's co-published by Vanguard Books (a M-L press) and Zed, the rad left third worldist UK publishers, has chapter headings and repeated usages of Khmer Rouge w/o scare quotes. And I betcha if you trawl though microfilm of the (NY) Guardian, you will find many contemporary usages by the radical left of the phrase Khmer Rouge. You still think that the genocide of the KR was exaggerated?!
Facing death in Cambodia / Peter Maguire. Author Maguire, Peter (Peter H.) Publisher New York : Columbia University Press, c2005.

The China-Cambodia-Vietnam triangle / Wilfred Burchett. -- Author Burchett, Wilfred G., 1911- Publisher Chicago, Ill. : London : Vanguard Books ; Zed Press, c1981. Description 235 p. ; 21 cm.
Title Kampuchea : decade of the genocide : report of a Finnish inquiry commission / edited by Kimmo Kiljunen. -- Publisher London : Totowa, N.J. : Zed ; U.S. distributor, Biblio Distribution Center, 1984.
Cambodia, 1975-1978 : rendezvous with death / [compiled by] Karl D. Jackson. Publisher Princeton, N.J. : Princeton University Press, c1989
The Khmer Rouge regime took control of Cambodia by force of arms, then committed the most brazen crimes since the Third Reich: at least 1.5 million people murdered between 1975 and 1979. Yet no individuals were ever tried or punished. This book is the story of Peter Maguire's effort to learn how Cambodia's "culture of impunity" developed, why it persists, and the failures of the "international community" to confront the Cambodian genocide. Written from a personal and historical perspective, Facing Death in Cambodia recounts Maguire's growing anguish over the gap between theories of universal justice and political realities. Maguire documents the atrocities and the aftermath through personal interviews with victims and perpetrators, discussions with international and NGO officials, journalistic accounts, and government sources gathered during a ten-year odyssey in search of answers. The book includes a selection of haunting pictures from among the thousands taken at the now infamous Tuol Sleng prison (also referred to as S-21), through which at least 14,000 men, women, and children passed-and from which fewer than a dozen emerged alive. What he discovered raises troubling questions: Was the Cambodian genocide a preview of the genocidal civil wars that would follow in the wake of the Cold War? Is international justice an attainable idea or a fiction superimposed over an unbearably dark reality? Did political expediency allow Cambodian leaders to escape prosecution? The Khmer Rouge violated the Nuremberg Principles, the United Nations Charter, the laws of war, and the UN Genocide Convention. Yet in the decade after the regime's collapse, the perpetrators were rescued and rehabilitated-even rewarded-by China, Thailand, the United States, and the UN. According to Peter Maguire, Cambodia holds the key to understanding why recent UN interventions throughout the world have failed to prevent atrocities and to enforce treaties. Book jacket. -- Michael Pugliese ------------

Yo Mike... There are other cultures of impunity that should concern us: google.com/..22
google:

Results 1 - 10 of about 44,000 for "culture of impunity". (0.04 seconds)

Specifically... but not exclusively: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4901559
Leigh www.leighm.net "MY COUNTRY is the GREATEST PURVEYOR OF VIOLENCE IN THE WORLD TODAY." Martin Luther KIng Jr.
(We should all repeat that as a mantra... no matter WHAT country we call home, stop pointing fingers at OPP and maybe... just maybe, we'll survive as a species till the next millenium.)

------------ The genocide in Cambodia was when the US air force dropped half a million tons worth of bombs on the Cambodian countryside. The US government/media stopped trying to sell the "KR is evil" story in 1979 when they did a 180 turn and began backing the CPK. Lance ------------

Recently in a source sympathetic to Vickery, your main source from a Cambodianist, I saw the estimate of 375,000 tons of bombs dropped by Nixon's USAF on Cambodia. THE Genocide? There were two, one big, the former you refer to, and the much larger, up to 1.5 million killed by the KR. Googling, I found an interesting thread, cyberussr.com/hcunn/e-asia/ch-khm1-c.html w/ this ghoulish subject line, "The Murder Sweepstakes." Which contains the figure Vickery arrived at, KR executions, 200,000-300,000 Total (excess deaths, presumably) 750,000.

James Devine, in his reading of my post w/ the cites on the KR/"Democratic Kampuchea", thought I was slamming the third worldist UK press on the rad left, Zed, specifically the Finnish Inq. Commish, can't through his broken record perception of me, see that I was applauding the Zed book and the judgement of their editors. They came up with the estimate of Finish Inquiry 75,000-100,000, executions, 1,000,000 deaths committed by the KR. Anyone with a good estimate of the numbers killed in Nixon's bombings, either from Shawcross or other source? Would it be anywhere near a tenth of the total killed by the US and French, 2.8 million killed Vietnamese? Anything comparable to what what the KR committed? Or will Lance, for the zillionth time relate the tired line that the KR (before the massive bombings, a sane national liberation movement like the NLF, HEH) was driven kwazy by the bombing?

What troubles me in Lance's pov, besides his inability to see ALL mass murders, as crimes, whether committed by the USG and allied regimes, or regimes and movements, that proclaim their opposition to the USG. (But, those deaths can always be excused w/ Mao's dinner party, and breaking eggs to make omeletes lines.)The left response to Jeanne Kirkpatrick's apologia, "Dictatorships and Double Standards, " article, for authoritarian regimes aligned w/ the USG, was that whether one is shot by a pro-American autocrat or a (formerly, as of post '89-'91) Soviet aligned totalitarian, one is still dead regardless. Only one, "Great Satan, " at a time, eh. mp -- -----

Why can't there be multiple villains? By bombing the hell out of the countryside, the US killed so many people and destabilized the country so much that an insane group like the KR could take over and kill many more people. It's true that after the US killed many hundreds of thousands of people, they don't have a big moral leg to stand on in talking about others' butchery in Cambodia, but that doesn't make the KR any less murderous.

------------ You say the CPK killed many more people than that killed by the US's dropping of hundreds of thousands of tons of bombs, that they were butchers and murderous...yet there is very little evidence to support any of that. Not that there wasn't and isn't a lot of talk about that - then again, there is a lot of talk in the US that POW's are still being held by the Vietnamese. All US post offices are required to fly the POW/MIA flag six times a year. Are you a believer in that too? Is the butchery of the CPK the same as the butchery of the Vietnamese depicted in Chuck Norris "Missing in Action" movies, a butchery of American prisoners supposedly still held by the Vietnamese? I doubt it. Cambodia was aimed at a high-brow audience, POW/MIA at low-brow. When it comes down to it, the people offering the idea that the Cambodian communists killed people on a massive scale have almost nothing to offer. They offer the last census taken in Cambodia - in 1962 as proof (which wouldn't count people killed by the US bombing of course, but that's best left forgotten). Or the testimony of English or French-speaking Cambodians in Thai refugee camps, chosen to talk to reporters by the Thai authorities. That's the story offered - and when compared to something like the records for the Nazi holocaust, is a joke. The story doesn't add up, so it's best not to talk about the story, and talk about the people saying the emperor wears no clothes as crazed or whatever. Which becomes harder when you ask why the US supported the CPK after 1979, why would the US get behind what you term an "insane group". I mean, this is all nonsense, it's a common heritage of delusion between white American yuppies, like heaven and hell are for those who are a class or two down. Lance ------------

So Noam Chomsky is too hard on the Khmer Rouge? Noam said: >I mean the great act of genocide in the modern period is Pol Pot, 1975 through 1978-that atrocity-I think it would be hard to find any example of a comparable outrage and outpouring of fury and so on and so forth. ... zmag.org/Chomsky/mc/mc-script-6.html ------------

Did you actually read this page? Later he says: "Up until April 17, 1975, it was a gentle land of peaceful smiling people and after that some horrible holocaust took place." Is he actually saying Cambodia was a gentle land of peaceful smiling people prior to April 17, 1975? No, he is being sarcastic, obviously. If you read the whole page you can find out what he thinks. He was not a supporter of the KR, in fact, he didn't like them at all, but he thought, and still thinks, that the reporting of them was overblown. He wrote a book with Edward Herman called "After the Cataclysm" which included a long section on the reporting of Cambodia, especially how things with little or no evidence were printed once and then picked up and reprinted all over the place, often mischaracterized. I see very little difference between the KR hysteria and the POW/MIA hysteria. They seem to be some kind of psychological outlets, sort of like the Dolchstosslegende after Germany's defeat in World War I (which probably had more basis). There's no there there, so obviously this fills some kind of psychological need in the US. Lance

------------ I've always called this "Chomskyan sarcasm." If you read enough of his writing you should get the hang of this tone of voice. The problem is that some of his critics take everything Chomsky says literally. Whatever, they don't matter. Chuck0 ------------

dissentmagazine.org/ Winter 2000, long article by the AP reporters. The Bridge at No Gun Ri Parts of the Associated Press report reprinted here appeared in many American newspapers last fall, but we didn't see the entire report anywhere. It is a powerful document, an unusual piece of investigative journalism, and one that has had significant political consequences. The U.S. Army is now investigating the allegations made by the soldiers quoted here (after long resistance to similar allegations by Korean civilians). There should be an official report in late spring or early summer of this year. Anticipating the discussion certain to follow upon the report, we include with the AP dispatch comments by Michael Walzer and Marilyn B. Young on the political and moral meaning of the incident at No Gun Ri. Eds. Sang-Hun Choe, Charles J. Hanley, and Martha Mendoza Marilyn B. Young wrote, "The Vietnam Wars; 1945-1990" a New Left volume. Blurbed, "A People's History of the Vietnam War" by a UK SWP'er. Good read esp. for those who might romanticize the North. In a series edited by Zinn for The New Press. -- Michael Pugliese

about the mainest rainbow gathering will stream in germany

2005-08-06T02:52:00.000-07:00

TAZ 04. August 2005:Nebenan, in der thüringischen Rhön auf der hohen Löhr, ging es dagegenheuer um die ewigen Hippiewerte: Die etwa 900 Leute umfassende"Rainbow-Family" versammelte sich dort vier Wochen lang - ungenehmigt -zu ihrem alljährlichen großen europäischen "Gathering".

Translation:Nearby in the Rhön in Thüringen on the "Hohe Löhr", it was about theeternal hippi values: The 900 or so people of the "Rainbow Family"gathered there for 4 weeks - without permission - for their yearly bigEuropean "Gathering".

Two slight mistakes:- the rainbow family is bigger than 900 people. Even at this gatheringthere were almost 2000 people a week before the full moon. And we allknow: everyone with a belly button belongs to the family ;-)- there was no official permission, but an inofficial one. All thelocals including authorities, hunters, owners etc. sort of consented tous being there.Love, peace and light, Bhajan Peter

Piet: I just might comment too but go ahead, don't wait for that to post yours ...

ANSWER ME YOU BEASTTURD!!!!!!!!!!!!

2005-08-06T01:11:00.000-07:00

Then again, I don't need some ex-drunk to confirm there is more likely a lot of wear and tear in the world than the mind is inviolably high 'abover' matter.

... however, would you remain calm if .. .

A): a man you came as good as face to face with (8 years ago in an Amsterdam squat, flattened in the meanwhile, nothing, not even orchards and gardens can stand in the way of concrete, progress and 'luxury'), slipped a piece of paper with jotted impromptu handwritten notes plus web adress where@ over the next few years you proceed to post conversations, polemics and disputes with various apostles, proselytes and clones of his culty clubber kin club REFUSES TO SAY A SINGLE SENSIBLE THING that bespeaks his sensibility to the sharp nosed dogs like me, wide awake and paying attention!!!!!!

B): somebody recruits in the same school you try to tempt and trick into helping you to change course collectively, that is, in the most egalitarian sweat-equitous, contiguously territorial, iow, viably way possible.

C): somebody steals your thunder index2.htm scroll down a bit

D): somebody is calmly 'idolate' (transliteration from Dutch) of/about a person who was indeed pretty versatile (Muhammed [pbuhws] idiot savant number juggler, calendrist, trader, prophet, fighter and perp of a particularly reactionary ((with 'respect' to Judaism)) and virulent way of statecraftiness, that is, monopolization of violence ((getting big enough to never fail - getting strong enough to say: gimme that tax or else I won't bounce across the border and pounce on potential(((/prospective state protection/prod to pay tax enjoying))))) citizens -- making your offers irrefusible is making them as compelling a demand as highest ((best armed, not kindest, smartest or any such stuff)) authority can. Perfect coincidence of supply and demand; ain't the freeing markit something?). Anyway, Jose's sheeple don't have a clue about cultural clutter and friction, they're busy spinning favorable fiction and use suppose make believe pretend confirmation from the real world to fire their imagination onto the expresslane for the great hights attained by the great lights and their sin and soon enough jaded sorrow causing impatience tempts them into artificial tinkery and labconcocted psychedelics, the cerebral rocketry derived fake but extraordinarily quick fixes and otherwise dizzyingly speedy flash flair and hi-flying inflammations that delivers .. . fascination for starlight and the fast forward of pretending consciousness can be taken everywhere. THE ABSURDITY!!!!! A time to flower and a time to root but never will there be time for a flower to visit a root from the inside out. Never will humans be happy anywhere but here on earth .. . someday .. .. maybe.

on the fifth of august at this blog I wrote a little about and quoted the 'highest holiest ...' etcetera and now under similar moon phase conditions (though we slipped a glyph probably, maybe even two (won't get into how the 28 day cycles are supposedly an elegantly radial solution to the two measures we metermate the moon by - one larger and the other smaller than 28) to I return to the moonstruckest among the moonstruck (trying to correlate its cycles with all the others including galactic ones necessitates using some very fine fractions and people might mistake that for bragging).

Anyway, .. .. I am on (to) him again and am going to send a big challenge to his site but you'all will get a foretaste, here's the fresh intro to older stuff:

http://liecause.tripod.com/Arguelles-kin-con.htm

A collection of digital moments my attention happened to get turned to/on Jose Arguelles, 'tortugans' and kindred ilk (quite often I notice, this file (161K covers only a season, sept 03 - feb 04) -- first acquaintance stems from the middle eighties when his then recent manuscripts were some amongst those from many others maverick mindmold manies found and perused in Daniel Winter's house and I saw the dreamspell and early paintings of his some time later, then ended up on the Tor in 87 but other than my general sympathy and pity for your run of the mill touchy feely hippy I can't bring myself to join, despite the vast permanent rainbow in baja rumours to which job opp news from another front I watch sidled up: www.seaagri.com

160K later we enter part 2 of observations on yet another cult of absolutist claimants, the kind and kinky fractions fetish triggered bonds and feuds amongst a new age network with low and preferably even no budget but nevertheless global aspirations, ladies and gentlemen, your special attention for the greatest latest kin con.

The credibility conjury by these con kin features the added twist and spice of claiming Muhammed for an equal (never mind the prophet himself tried to cut off all competition preemptively by telling everyone he was to be the last.I can believe that instead of coercing women they somehow felt as strongly about him as he thought highly of himself and so they just fell at his feet in series of bunches and generously shared him and only him while reserving their attention for only him to though due to the fragmentation of their great numbers they must have had plenny of time on their hands.

Judging from your charisma mr arguelles, you don't make the grade and that's only a very minor fault of yours in my eyes.

Over the last few years I have again and again examined your antics and decided to collect them in one place, for greater conveyance convenience, redundancy and challenge; the continuation of my interest depends entirely on you answering at all since I am losing interest quickly here.

Ever heard 'Stairway to heaven' by Frank Zappa?

2005-08-04T06:03:00.000-07:00

here's your chance (I don't see how www.robotwisdom.com operator Jorn Barger calls this a pirate version type search unless it just don't apply to any old song, since this one just isn't such a one).

Hang on .. . here we go, spoke too soon.

Have you heard of the big green gathering?

2005-08-04T05:52:00.000-07:00

First reports of this year's edition are in (at lawrence's place).

Been goin' since the 70s (see http://tash_photo.blogspot.com for very rainbow gathering like images from those early days).

www.lawrencespicturepage.co.uk one hell of a humongous collection of UK festival pictures taken by a conventional enough looking young black man with a camera filtered eye for the artistic and uncommon who gets to them on trains and with a small bicycle for the last leg to and first leg from such events. A welcome addition to the old tash man of course. Here are his impressions from a gathering with a lake besides plenny of sky water http://members.fortunecity.com/londonpics1/Festivals/bgg-02-1.htm
realfestivalmusic.co.uk/ images-bgg-2002.html
tangentially related:
fairfordpeacewatch.com
net127.com
hearthworks.co.uk/gallery/tipis_02.html
out on a limb even further:
the-tree.org.uk/ the-tree.org.uk/TreeTalk/PicturePages/RGriffing/griffing.htm .. . . .We dined in a hollow cottonwood tree- True but forgotten story of the first europeans on turtle island

monumentally new moment

2005-07-30T04:35:00.000-07:00

just started another one
http://compostartist.blogspot.com it has some lbo-talk conversation snippets for starters (from the week before last)

ps: on the 4th of august another blog saw the light:

http://poetpiet.tripod.com/blog includes speculations as to why lycos dumped me.

.. . might it be bycause all my blogs so far shun their blogging software and they were deeply hurt I wouldn't use and/or become a payfordigital space member?

those 2 come on top of 3 earlier blogspot.com sites:
wellbredrock = evening reading
compostartist = cloudy day reading
powdertowell = sunny day (or behind unbudgeably in too bright and unshadable light situated monitor) reading

... .and another 5 places at web-log.nl (posts there in dutch mostly; these pages have the nasty drawback of not allowing discriminate text selection and so the following sites are as good as dead unless they change that):
wwwoord
sjeesasverlostkristallen
gezondverstand
teelteelt
gekkestek

on top of the (pretty much equally) unused possibility to just send me an e-mail (though, for folks who don't know me yet, I'd prefer close collabies in matters like large swaths of landscape nurturing community living).

Anybody know a good name for the 11th and last of my blogs?

pretty-lonely-for-a-dead-on-charismatic? thisblogismylastbet?

is Eric reciprocating my interest in him? (+ note on lycos)

2005-07-30T02:20:00.000-07:00

He certainly must have noted I noted him if he ever used to peer into the mirror googled (before loads of stuff disappeared from the caches some weeks after being blocked abruptly by my former host Lycos-europe*)

http://www.sociologyesoscience.com/ E.P.Wijnants July 23, 2005: Humans tend to see themselves as living in a civilization. And they understand civilization to be centred on a shared destiny, often called the public good. Today our obsession with a certain kind of austere, abstracted measurement is closely tied to the idea of a civilization that believes it is being led by economics. That sort of leadership involves a bizarre contradiction: an aggressive certainty that these economics can be measured with great precision versus a passive certainty that they can only very marginally be shaped. Aggressive on the details, passive on the larger picture.

*A plausible speculation on the discrepancy between referrers (almost all via google) at this former site (over 300 everyday for just the para- and preblog url, ../logbriefer.htm, never mind the plus or minus 20 files per year since the turn of the century) and the visitor numbers lycos' own stats showed just as consistently (15 a week for the whole site) : the latter number refers to (ad)clickthroughs and the fact that these numbers remained low made them jilt and chuck me unless the fact that I crossed the 50 free megabites without volunteering to pay for the overweight has something to do with it .... . anybody know?

highest holiest of rainbow chumpchamp shamen strikes again

2005-07-05T11:40:00.000-07:00

http://www.livejournal.com/users/northanger/82004.html I like the new northanger a lot, specially since she comes at a time of all time high attention to dust plumes on one of her fave foci .. .. keep it up and your peteypiet (tweettweet) will keep up with your upkeep

Here's the big man's new sermon; he's following the classic rules:

Empasize importance of your work by claiming it is parenthesized by solar flares 91 days apart (8 years ago)

Complain that this particular revelation has been taken for the artistic liberty rides which aren't faithful nor respectful enough of the original; hell, it ain't even been done produced in Europe (though it came out in Brazil and Japan), all due the downdumb of cellphone and internet.

End with a euphoric upbeat read out (you know, the feudal kind of royal/nobility title read-off; heck you can do it yourself, prick a pin in the middle of a round piece of paperstack; colour each sprocket with a different amount of number/teeth and set time a ticking; garanteed new read out for aeons!!!!! Hop, that's credit creation in action for ya. I laugh and you already knew all this; wait till I tell my fans.

Here's a sample (from lawoftime.org):
For a humanity trapped in its accelerating densification these magical mind expanding tools are of the utmost evolutionary necessity. But it seems that less and less people actually care. Their lower selves trapped in the quagmire of mass consciousness, on a daily basis they experience the shrinking of their will to transcend or to exert in something that is truly from beyond the matrix. This is a problem, the solution of which lies in the understanding and exercise of planet sorcery.

2. Planet Sorcery and the AC-CA Plate ShiftWaking up Single Luminous White "A" by the Power of the Original 144,000 "... It is important to set your motivation from the outset and to maintain a very strong motivation, while abandoning all self-interested and temporary motivation." Yangthang Tulku, Dzogchen, p. 4

Indefatigably, we move onward! Planet sorcery, you say? Yes, planet sorcery - how else are we going to tame the demons of lower self that prevail over the affairs of Velatropa 24.3? The introduction of planet sorcery as a method allows us to get more profoundly to this matter of the Way of Conduct and the Way of Wielding Power. Sorcery is the method of taming lower energizes and converting them for higher purposes. We are talking about such an action on a planetary scale - hence planet sorcery, a basic principle for activating the templates of Cosmic History (See below, Section 4).
......
We are only trying to bring to attention that at this stage in the closing of the cycle we need a new time of action and activism. The revolution will not be won on the Internet. The telepathic tests that are necessary to engage the rainbow bridge must be done in living biopsychic energy fields. The new society will not be organized by e-mail, but by getting together in councils and sacred circles and by assigning tasks to living beings to begin to transform their lives with new patterns of thought and behavior. We must begin to remove ourselves from the material energetic force field of the monitor screen back into the garden and planning councils. We must restore the balance. We need to breathe fresh air, plant corn and study and discuss matters together by the hearth or by the fireside, where it all began, in a time so long ago.

4th of august:
Although 'space mere matter but time of mind' Arguelles (coming to Switserland soon) has lately held back on and retreated from touting the Khalifite version of numerical or mathematical miracles in the Quran, the socalled 19 code he is not disavowing his conviction that him and Mohammed are pals from way back as a former one yet and so I consider the following related and timely enough to post here:

Comment at a northanger (livejournal) blog item: beware the sun/moon equivalencers, equivalencizers, equivaluators such as the stonehenge erectors (per whats his name), the rashid khalifa factions and those opposed, the ones opposing portions such as the author of 'The Miracle of Nineteen Between the Backwardness of Muslims and the Perversities of Impostors’who also wrote: www.islamnoon.com/language/en_studies.htm# The Decline of Israel 2022 AD
A Prophecy Or Numerical Coincidence
Bassam Nihad Jarrar
The Biqaa’ LibraryLebanon
somebody who does dare di numeri means idiot with the savant in italian

a friend - perfect splitter - kindest cutter - nonsubstitutional wildgrowther
--------------------------whoopsy floopsy swoopsy made mistakeywith should be withOUT (the redeeming ((money rock and rolling)) savant part) long live innumeracy and well situated to be assimilable duston second thought I'll pass on your baby picture if I can have the wet pre-bra t-shirt one insteadI just had an adventure wherewith I astounded myself even; a blue eyed black(k)inkhaired east german lady made me her husband (or did I make her make me?) and projected the real one into a role I could and probably was playing ('slightly too intrusive friend of the family'); instead of apologizingly distracting distraught hubby comin home late I let him bruise her . . . allowing a moment for that to sink in and disgust you. . . just so you don't get your hopes up, I deserve to be bought off + disenchanted with a minimum slice of reality and not a molecule of fibre more

-------2020 Visions? Some while back, http://www.beadgaming.com/AnalysisHawali.html I suggested that Al-Qaida's strategic timeline might be responsive to a comment made by Sheikh Safar al-Hawali at the end of his book, Day of Wrath, to the effect that Jerusalem would likely return to Muslim hands in 2012. Al-Hawali drew this conclusion from his study of Biblical prophecies, and as bin Laden has been known to read al-Hawali's writings, the possibility exists that he might think in terms of the Sheikh's apocalyptic timeline.

This DoublesQuotes presents an even longer timeline, juxtaposing the strategic thinking of Makkawi (ie Sayf al-Adel) of al-Qaida with an apocalytpic date from Sheikh Bassam Jarrar, a Hamas leader whose prophetic predictions are to be found in his book The Wonders of 19: Between the Inattentiveness of the Muslims and the Errors of the Falsifiers. Hamas is not al-Qaida, and I am not claiming a direct connection between the two dates -- merely suggesting that these two quotes between them are suggestive of an even longer possible strategic overview than the one I proposed earlier.
I am grateful to Anne Marie Oliver and Paul Steinberg, whose brilliant, poetic book The Road to Martyrs' Square (Oxford, 2005) tipped me off to Jarrar's work. posted by Charles Cameron at

http://www.beadgaming.com/2005/03/2020-visions.html

http://www.quranicstudies.com/downfile41 130K zippered pdf excerpts from Numerical Miracles of the Qur\'an

There Are Many Reasons Why: Suicide Bombers and Martyrs in ..."It is well-known that Islam forbids suicide," explains Sheikh Bassam Jarrar, apopular religious leader based in Ramallah. "Suicide is running away, ... - 38k -

Adam & Jesus... Bassam Jarrar from Noon Center noticed in the Holy Quran that there is numerical relations between the names of Adam and Jesus put . ... www.qurbaha.com/Ciise.htm.html - 29k -

- When they go to die (by Joharah Baker) - Media Monitors Network... It is usually the enemy who calls them suicide bombers, says Sheikh BassamJarrar, director of Al Noon Center for Quranic Studies. ... www.mediamonitors.net/joharahbaker2.html - 60k -

- The Quran is characterized by a unique phenomenon never found in ...This study was realized by Noon Center leaded by professor Bassam Jarrar.May Allahreward them for their work and gives benefits to all people. ... www.hannityandcolmes.com/fakir60/initial.htm - 100k -

- The Miracle of the Serial Order of the Suras opening with Abbreviated Letters(Fawatih). by BASSAM JARRAR. The Miracle of the Serial ... www.hannityandcolmes.com/fakir60/initials2.htm - 101k

- n-tv.de - "Ich wünschte, ich hätte noch 20 Söhne, um auch sie ...... "Unsere Religion verbietet zwar Selbstmord", sagt Scheich Bassam Jarrar vom Al-Nun Zentrum für Koranstudien, "doch das Konzept des Märtyrertums bedeutet eine ... www.n-tv.de/2723921.html - 32k

-Eavesdropping on Radical Islam - Middle East Quarterly - March 199524 Bassam Jarrar, al-Quds wa-l-Aqsa. 25 Qattan, Afan Fanni, no.3.; `Azzam, Aqlam.26 Nasir ad-Din al-Albani, al-Amr bi-l-Ma`ruf (4 cassettes); `Ali Belhadj, ...www.meforum.org/article/237 - 51k -

Mobilizing Women for Nationalist Agendas: Palestinian Women, Civil ...Bestandsformaat: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - HTML-versieunder severe criticism by Islamic clerics, including Bassam Jarrar, who arguedthat the ideas promoted. were “devilish” because in his view they do not ... http://lark.cc.ku.edu/~redbud/Gerner.Fulbright.pdf -

www.nashiri.net/imag march 2005 has 2 Jarrar articles. April and May too; looks like they are gonna do the whole thing (excerpt from ch.2 coming up)

http://hyperstition.abstractdynamics.org/archives/005985.html
if I remember correctly it was leigh myers at lbo last week (his own site is leighm.net) who scolded the harryites as brainless idiots; I thought that was pretty harsh but haven't visited there for a long time now.

of interest to Reza et al: http://www.sociologyesoscience.com/muslimm/

Explaining Muslim Neofundamentalism

Exploding the Middle-East Myth

Jihad: Who is Culture?

Probably the fact of the location of beliefs and values in culture adds no additional barrier that the subject must escape to contact objectivity. Thus what marks the special nature of Islamic fundamentalism, is its modernism. Like E. P. Wijnants pointed out in early 2003 in his two part essay on various radical groups, the intellectual roots and historical precedents of today's Islamic revival can be traced back to Sayyid Jamâl al-Din (1833-97), called al-Afghani. And entail a closeted form of the Western modernism that it so publicly claims to oppose. This included also the Deoband movement that emerged from central India in the wake of the ill-fated revolt against the British in 1857. Founded by Mohammed Zasim Nanautawi (1833-77) and Rashid Ahmed Gangohi (1829-1905), it set up madrassas in India, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

piet: All true but too conventional in focus; not quite long wave enough in the sense of showing how close the ME monotheisms are inextricably entangled, attempts at extraction by the likes of Hamas scholar Bassam Jarrar (www.nashiri.net/imag march 2005 has 2 Jarrar articles) for instance notwithstanding. His harangue about semitc sibling Israel's sins (not allowing enough fallowness ((sabbath)) in other words overgrazing, over demografixyfucksing) claims they will some time soon now lead to the third chase out as sure as the Quraniclockwork (which Jews ((who prefer bible code distraction and)) won't count with/by/on or countenance) ticks on even while going down toilets and such. However, the abjabobinariouslessly abject way he casts his net (starting simple enough to lure the unawarare with the odds and even trick for instance ((serial order of suras, chapter two in the 'numerical miracles' pamphlet freely available from multiple websites))) betrays the shortcircuit absolutist pretence these people suffer which if we let'm cleaves whole worlds into famously and variously named cliffedges and destroys all synthesis, systemicism and synergy (counting beyond dualities, 2s, etcetera), a perversion of the true cleaveage leavesage .. .. hey, I AM a leafsage come to think of it; dust into rain blowing archaonizer .. thought I'd be explicit about it for a new monumental moment since I despair about others taking such perfect notice. Quit substituting for multi-micro-cultural soil populant demographix with way too specifically singling out ID attempts and favoritisms of the digital abstract or even human kind; leave proliferation and abundance up to the subtly hoppering and size segratory ache shaking earthans: soil organisms; all we can do is feed life with death and that doesn't mean putting the former to the latter like trying to drag a horse to water either.

Chapter 2
The Miracle of the Serial Order of the Suras in the Holy Qur’an

Since the early centuries Muslims have paid attention to numbers in the Qur’an. Dr Ghanem Al-Hamad, the verifier of the book Al-Bayan fi Ad Ayel-Qur’an (‘The Inventory of the Qur’anic Verse Count’) by Abu Amru Al-Dani mentions 36 books on the science of Qur’anic numbers, from Kitab Al-‘Adad (‘The Book of Numbers’) by Ata’ Ibn Yasaar (103 AH) to Zahr Al-Ghurar fi ‘Adad Ayat Al-Suwar (‘The First Blossoms of Verse Count’) by the Andalusian scholar Ahmad A-Salami (747 AH). This interest has not flourished sufficiently through the ages to yield definitive results but as the Qur’an is the word of God Almighty who created and perfected the universe and counted everything, it is to be expected that the book will be different from conventional books written by fallible humans. However, with the ascent of human consciousness, people today are more capable of criticism and evaluation through modern sciences and other means.
Scholars have differed in their understanding of the order of Qur’anic Suras. The majority have maintained that the order of Suras is Tawqifi, that is by command of the Apostle (Peace be upon him) on the instruction of the Angel Jibreel. Sayuuti believed that the order was an act of revelation except Suras 8 (‘Anfal’) and 9 (‘Tauba’). Some believe that it was the independent judgement of the Prophet’s companions, though the evidence for this is insubstantial and this matter is not for elaboration in this context. We merely observe that the opinion that regards the order of the Suras as not being a revelation is based on implicit evidence, while belief in the order inspired by revelation rests on direct evidence. In any case, our intention is to present mathematical evidence to support the revelation viewpoint and, in fact, we may even go beyond that to assert that the order of verses is an act of revelation that is in itself evidence for Prophethood and an aspect of miracle.
There are many publications in contemporary intellectual scholarship related to Qur’anic miracles. These include the rhetorical, the scientific, the legal, etc. However, what we today call the “numerical miracle” is still controversial, which is why it has been out of favor with scholars and researchers. This is despite the fact that there have been partly successful attempts to study the subject, such as the one by Abdul Razaq Nawfal and the Jordanian researcher Abdullah Jalghoom in his book ‘The Secrets of the Order of the Qur’an: A Contemporary Reading’. Here we will acquaint the reader with the most important points made in his book and with what we have done by way of development and follow up.

I just asked http://hyperstition.abstactdynamics.org author Reza if he knows any of the mentioned authors

The PANfachefuckwits and cultoids are of course very welcome to comment also . .. . but . .. I am sorry .. I can't afford to give you the pleasure of watching me hold my breath here.

starting at 75 people, to gather takes a permit

2005-07-02T03:30:00.000-07:00

"According to media reports of the June 28 proceedings, encampments of as little as twenty campers that have contact with other campers in the national forest can be cited for failure to organize themselves into a "group" as was the case with some of the accused who were found guilty by U.S. Magistrate John Kaull. This chilling precedent could apply to any family who camped in the woods and made friends with other campers a mile down the trail." http://moongulch.net/pipermail/gathering_info

Well, my differences with the family on the 'failure to organize' front are of a wholly different from legal nature yet as a way to urge halfway fine folks to mature I can see some convergence between my take on legitimacy and the state's state (federal) idea of legality down the line . . .. .way waaaaaay down the line .. .. .

I've written about (how to get on the good side of) the anonymity (as a way to ensure a healthy dynamic between unity/diversity/) conundrum enough to resist temptation to repeat my self yet again*. The family's refusal to bow down/answer/give in to the official, final and fateful status of spokesperson/contract signees is a healthy impulse, but that said, I don't see why one shouldn't set/draft up ideal sit/rules and in/under which signing would be no prob, even welcomed.

* ughgnnngnghhhggrrrhhhhaaah, nope, can't restrain meself much longer .. . . lemme tell ya, there's a world of difference between anynymity from the top down ((erased identity and dirty tracks covered really; floating signifiers (((like power terms of some status or other))) are only so many bombs lifted aloft and sure to drop unless supported by substantial and preferably living (d)rafters)) vs from the bottom up ((consistently voluntarizing for lack of a better term)); perhaps a current thread about possibly shared (etym.) roots of terror and terra (shake/shock, dry/drought)) is apt but am thinking more in the direction of a present convergence ((vs the by contrast more and more neglected, rudely ignored and otherwise off( )ended humic aspects of humanitarianism))).

Maturing into permanent enclaves of the sort hinted at and alluded to in the bottom of the next post down would leave little, by me anyways, to be desired.

ps: speaking of permanent rainbow gatherings, here's the best we do so far: http://www.wildernesscollective.com/page01.htm
geocities.com/a_rainbow_way_of_life/about.html
I linked to Monte Venero (in spain) a (long) while ago and am acquainted with one of the driving forces there who's traded his staying put and building powers in for saving money (trade in wool blankets, artisanship of trinket and tipi construction) for travelling with a warm relation.

rainbow gathering EU (germany this year)

2005-07-02T01:17:00.000-07:00

http://daslebenistgruen.de/rainbow/

It will be in the hills of Thueringen, close to the former border between east and west Germany, east of Meiningen, south of Bad Salzungen. . ..

NEWSFLASH: Childbirth has taken place in the wild, under those primitive circumstances wherein the rainbow family likes to be immersed in order to feel secure; now if a tree thinning circus would move every month or so, in order to end up with inhabitably branched out and leafy spaciousness with patches of sun reaching incredibly well mulched (and of course lustily bedusted) ground I wouldn't begrudge them the seemingly wasteful ways open firemanagement entails. .. .

.. . .anyway, due to a consensus (of some sort or another, I never agreed to it but wasn't there to block it either) i can't post the directions; they happen to sit in a mailinglist archive that will take your subscription: http://lists.open4all.net/mailman/listinfo/vision5 . .. and at a whole bunch of others of course: http://www.rainbowinfo.ch for instance

Even at the german rainbow forum http://www.rainbowinfo.de/ folks are wondering .. . where the hell do we go .. . .?

I shall post the 5th message in thread (babys at rainbow) with that endearing example I started this post with:
http://www.rainbowinfo.de/phorum/read.php?f=25&i=60&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;t=60
Hallo liebe Schwester!
Bin zurzeit am Österreich Rainbow und hier sind viele Familien mit Kindern in jedem Alter. Rainbow ist für Kinder genauso wie für Erwachsene eine unglaubliche Bereicherung. Gestern hatten wir eine Geburt am Rainbow. Die Eltern entschieden sich unter Anderem dafür, weil sie sich am Rainbow beschützt und geborgen fühlen. Es war für uns alle ein wunderbares Geschenk!
Liebe, Licht und Liebe
Seoo

Elsewhere at this forum in a thread mostly in english: http://www.rainbowinfo.de/phorum/read.php?f=25&i=3&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;t=3 Rainbow meeting in Germany
Rainbowcircle wishes respect for our consensus not to put the direction of the place in to the internet.You can get information by sending a mail to gathering05@web.de , via rainbow telephone in Plessa (number on this page, preperation eur. gathering) or from your local focalizer.All infos will be shared in the family but please dont write the place on this side.There are good reasons to do so,Thank you viktor

http://wiki.rainbowinfo.de/rbwiki/PlessaInfosForTravelers this page is in english and it's kind of been the base for the rainbow scouts

There is a poster/flyer/drawing/description which has a phone number if you're really ansy

.. .. .. .. meanwhile, over across the big pond, Karin is still at it, helping people lose their questions and pick up some confidence and pointers to comfort, love you Karin: http://moongulch.net/pipermail/gathering_info

Mmmmm, .. . .she's a rather split subject cause once her helpfulness (see previous post) has been succesful and she's gotten/directed/eased/delivered you out of your troubled mind you may find yourself beset, surrounded or at least af- and/or confronted with stuff like this: http://users.netonecom.net/~cyberpsychos/cpsub.html "Mind you, they're examples only. Nothing psychological is set in stone, nor should it be." -- yeah right, that's exactly the type of inversive distraction schiz person of pyromaniacal fire walk and worship would say, hogging the rock (cr-), saying 'move along, nothing to see here, . .. .oh look over there (-ash) ----

Karin offers 6 'crash worship' links and 9 literary ones from the list at her own place

Time for a new 'gratefully receiving' or 'eager acceptance' theory of my own:

When folks fail to integrate/contain/package/store fire (tweak the reciprocality of outer world, phizzical manifs of the old one way tide from solar to solid into a more mutual meet halfway kind of deal, iow, help the oxides to meet the heat in/as reducabling crucibles ((puddles, compost heaps)) halfway in order to come up with hormone balancing, invigorating sustenance) nature has to perform this trick the crude and rude way she is wont and been known to use, namely by way of volcanism . . .. and perhaps the way culture and consciousness focuses on outer extreme and negative fire (defined here as everything that isn't soil building/deepening is ecologically damaging), iow, exothermal flames is in a vicious circle with and a reflection/indication of the declining 'earths' (grounding trace minerals as Julius Hensel called them) .. .. .. perhaps this even gets reflected in the way fire elements are 'exposed' in people's charts .. .

In light of all of the above, it seems no less a paradox that my vision for rainbow (to stick to the jargon) is to mature (rather than simply starting over with a different cast) into simply and effectively deal with freshly and flamelessly manufactured ashes (paramagnetic dusts, sludges, milks, sprays, etcetera) to consciously mimic/prevent volcanism and (in)form sanity in ways that should be as clear as a clod (odd word that; this attempted lowland expression translation plays on cute ass/sweet, concentration, clear crystallization and cleverness; the sugar ndustry in the EU, that least logical of all subsidy gobblers, has just been told to shape up) to anyone who (has taken the time and) proved himself (not to me alas*) able to keep up with what I am on (and on and on) about.

* perhaps good it doesn't mean it keeps me up (with corrrespondence and the like); matter of fact my upkeep has been characterized by reluctance and resistance if not dissociaton toward what i more and more emphatically and filling damn near fuller than full time insisted on keeping up since day one and i am ashamed to say I haven't grown out of it to earn my keep with pleaching, permaculture and percrushion (gee, been a long time since that word rolled onto the screen; http://members.tripod.com/~poetpiet/rainbow_fabul_n_ation.htm here is proof that google refuses to acknowledge anyone else's ownership of the term ha ha!!!! Just kidding) which is one reason why I felt most comfortable taking no more (than a minimum) to keep (myself) up , iow, no more than what keeps a person subsisting on income/support below poverty levels; it's just too bad the super-rich would rather invest in outrageous yachts than little experimental communities big enough to be viable on a rotation route a la John Michell basis. It's been too long since the likes or Robert Owen lived and breathed.

GO HOME

2005-06-28T13:11:00.000-07:00

Most people are at the Cranberry Glade site as of yesterday - I doubt that will change.

No permits are required for you - just for the event.

Don't let the bullshit scare you away. Once you park your car andhike into the gathering itself, life will be very wonderful. Justplan on arriving early in the morning - between dawn and 10 amif possible. The parking lot is mellower at this hour and you'll have all day to hike in, wander around looking for a camping, find your friends, set up camp, etc.

Please make sure your car and driver are 100% legal with workinglights, insurance and all required licenses. The cops do hassle people on the roads in.

Bring lots of produce - but stuff that doesn't spoil easily. Apples, oranges, carrots, zucchini, - that sort of stuff.

North is pretty vague.

You're going to the Cranberry Glade Vistor's center:

DIRECTIONS: The quickest access from Washington, D.C. is to stick to the Interstates. Speeds on the Virginia Interstates are 65 mph outside the populous Washington, D.C. area, so good time can be made. From the Washington area, take I-66 west to I-81 south to I-64 west. At Lewisburg, about 12 miles across the state line inside West Virginia, take WV Route 219 north. Near Seebert, West Virginia, take 39/55 west to the Cranberry Visitor Center. Total travel time, about 5-1/2 hours.

Those interested in a more scenic route throught the premiere mountain ranges of West Virginia can take I-66 west to I-81 south to Route 55 west. At Moorefield, West Virginia, pick up WV Rt. 220 south. At Petersburg, take Rt. 28 south all the way to Huntersville (Rt. 28 is shared by other Routes along the way). At Huntersville, take Rt. 39 west to Marlinton, and at Marlinton, take Rt. 219 south to Seebert. At Seebert, head west on 39/55 to the Cranberry Visitor Center. Total travel time, about 6-1/4 hours. Otherwise, go to map quest and find directions to Seebert from where ever you are. Have a safe journey home.
Love, Karin

conversation snippets buzzing around the prayers for peace

2005-06-28T01:16:00.000-07:00

A fairly reprsentative cross-section of them I think.

Discussies:alt.gathering.rainbow Datum:2005-06-26 08:09:48 PST------ xx : : xx ------ Van:lightwaryr@yahoo.com (lightwaryr@yahoo.com)
Subject: forget all rumors of cancellation or abandonment, folks are still at cheat mountain ------ xx : : xx ------ please do not misrepresent the truth with rumor, propaganda, hearsay or conjecture. there are still people at cheat mountain and there is no rebellion. folks there have serious questions about the safety of gathering at the cranberry site. the people there want to offer what they consider a safe alternative to the cranberry site, especially for folks with young children, the elderly and those with serious health issues who could easily be at risk if the water becomes contaminated by shitters which are above the springs or by over-crowding on a small site. right now people are still developing the infra-structure. some of the people who left did so because they did not want to do the work of developing a new site. others have come to the site from cranberry because they did not like how things were there. if the cranberry site becames over crowded or the water becomes contaminated, people will be glad to know that there is a safe alternative. this is not a competition between sites. this is about serving the family. jane ------ xx : : xx ------ whatever happened to concensus? so it seems that whatever number cheat mountain is. only a very few are there and majority are at other site. sounds like a split to me. or that one is a gathering, and theother is a campout till they get a permit. spiritrising ------ xx : : xx ------ Seems like it's alive and well, unless you believe the process should include those of us who are not actually on the land, in the light of day. Consensus is feet on the ground, digging shidders. Posting on a.g.r. complaining about how things haven't gone the way you'd like them to, isn't part of that. now i know you don't know anything, .. .. if that was true , guess what my concensus of key west would have been real, there are people on the land digging shitters and cooking food and having a good time. .. . .all in key west! oh well someday you'll learn. i haven't complained about one thing .. . infact i have laughed at the joke it has become. spiritrising ------ xx : : xx ------ You are judging people on their actions and you are not even an eyewitness to their situation. You may not cut me down simply because I spoke up in their defense against you. You are wrong, spiritrising. You've opted out of the gathering for political reasons. That's your choice, and your perogative, but it does not bind anyone else to follow your wisdom, and it has zero bearing on the consensus process which is rainbow. The consensus process has the gathering going on, disaster it may be. Some people are reporting it's not bad. Others are reporting a complete clusterfuck. I'm going on the theory that the different experience is in proportion to how much distance you put between yourself and the nearest alcoholic beverage. Unlike you, I am willing to go there and witness the experience for myself. Then I will be in a position to comment on what is going on in West Virginia. At this moment I am only in a position to look for information that will help me go there. I would not presume to judge the decisions of people who are on the land right now, and I certainly would not make an attack of the sort you want to do, that the consensus process has failed. What does Key West have to do with it? I'd love to go to Key West. Especially after the way people like Rich and Turtle and 22 talk it up. But I really don't understand what that has to do with the current sitation in WV. I especially don't see how it's supposed to help them, soon to be us. Oh well, soon I'll be offline too, and out of your hair. Afterwards, I'll have been an eyewitness and a participant, and I'll have my opinions from that experience. You'll still be talking from hearsay. ------ xx : : xx ------ really, i have front seat and first hand knowledge of everything that is going on at all three site and they are not the only sites,i did not opt out for political reasons, i got tired of the deaths that happened because of the gatherings, i'm not political at all and could care less what the us gov. does. i belong to a different and soveriegn nation. so that blows your shit again little man. yep the consensus has been going on, tomorrow every body meets at buffets bar, you can not say it ain't so because it is consensus on the land that was used. oh and by the way i haven't had any kind of ahcohol probaly since before you were born or even longer again blowing your shit down the tube. like i said you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, i advise some airconditioning maybe you have heat stroke or something. i have been experiencing gatherings a lot longer than you have and gatherings died when it lost front gate. may it rest in peace, go to the movie and nazi gathering in wv tell us how much fun you have. hile hitler to ya .stupid is as stupid does and by the looks of things i hear from my cousin the district supervisor it is nothing like it ever has been. a-camp is where council is so have your beer , suck it down and tell me more stupid shit. there is more than one consensus on this planet and they are having a national raainbow family gathering in key west as we speak per vision council last year. didn't you hear about it? too bad proves again you don't know shit, except what you try to wipe off your ass, hey ya missed some.i cana actaully smell it overflowing from your posts, glad i got a shovel. spiritrising ------ xx : : xx ------ You spend more time at a computer keyboard than *I* do. That's a neat trick, from rainbow land. I'm jealous. I suspect you are a mean, angry person. I'm sorry you have had more contact with death than you would have liked. Don't lay it on me please. That's twice you've done that. I'm not responsible for that, and I really am not in a position to help you heal. ------ xx : : xx ------ " too bad proves again you don't know shit, except what you try to wipe off your ass, hey ya missed some. i cana actaully smell it overflowing from your posts, glad i got a shovel. " ------ xx : : xx ------ I think I deserve to be treated better than you treat me. I don't quite understand how or who you think you're helping with this kind of bitterness. Whatever works for you spiritrising; have fun in Key West. I really didn't do anything to provoke anyone to something like a hitler reference. I know that much in my heart. ------ xx : : xx ------ yep i still carry the motto kill them all let their gods sort em out! i don't need healing, i like it that way. didn't you know that kids are going to the gathering wearing swastickas and such? can tell you haven't been to one in a long time if at all. or is it those blinders you wear? hile hitler! spiritrising ------ xx : : xx ------ Jane, I need to interupt you here: "please do not misrepresent the truth with rumor, propaganda, hearsay or conjecture. " ------ xx : : xx ------ I ask you to follow your own advice. The water at Cranberry comes from springs well above shitters, and even from springs outside the site. I helped lay some of this pipe, I speak from being there. The people who left Cheat Mountain left because there were no sites for a kitchen. There were no sites for camping. We scouted Cheat Mountain, we intended to camp there, it simply wasn't possible. The trees are too dense for camping in them, and the there are many dangerous drop offs that could seriously injure our family. When I left Cheat Mountain, I had not encountered a single hippie who left Cranberry. The only ones I met were people who HEARD Cranberry was bad. ------ xx : : xx ------ "if the cranberry site becames over crowded or the water becomes contaminated, people will be glad to know that there is a safe alternative. " ------ xx : : xx ------ Thank you for thinking of the Family, and I am very sincere about that. I think when you get on the Cheat Mountain Site your views of safety will change. ------ xx : : xx ------ "this is not a competition between sites. this is about serving the family. " ------ xx : : xx ------ I agree, that is why I went to Cheat Mountain, and why I left it. Treetop Dave

------ xx : : xx
SLIGHTLY DISTURBING 'EVIDENCE' OF 'OPPOSITES ATTRACT'?????

Van:Michael Butschky (butsch1@comcast.net)
Subject: Are the gas chambers on site yet? ------ xx : : xx ------ .
Hey All, I was browsing through the news and saw this article about the site the Forest Service has picked out for us. So, are the "showers" on site yet? Best Wishes, Mike

June 24, 2005 Rainbows and Nazis
Let there be peace
WHOSE bright idea was it to relocate the Rainbow Family gathering a mile away from the headquarters of one of the largest neo-Nazi organizations in the country? Somebody in the U.S. Forest Service evidently doesnt mind inviting trouble. We know the Forest Service has its hands full trying to protect the forest while accommodating thousands of counterculture campers. We know the Rainbow Family rejected some other alternatives. But the National Alliance draws racists and skinheads from many parts of the world to its compound in Pocahontas County. Who decided it would be a good idea to camp a multiracial group of thousands of clothes-avoidant peaceniks next door to them? A quick cruise of the National Alliance Web site shows that the group advocates violence, preaches racism, and would be extremely hostile to just about everything the eclectic Rainbow group represents. Both groups are counterculture, at opposite extremes. Earlier this week, Pocahontas County prosecutor Walt Weiford said, I doubt there would be any conflicts as long as there is no encroachment on [the National Alliances] lands. Typically, they have not welcomed guests. Theres an understatement. Weiford said he depends on Pocahontas County Sheriff Bob Alkire to make sure there is no trouble when the crowd gathers around the July 4 weekend. Hopefully, the West Virginia State Police will be on hand, too. Any violence would make national news. Millions would automatically assume the Nazis are homegrown West Virginians. We wish the Rainbow Family a peaceful gathering, since they're here. This is their first trip back to the state after two members were tragically murdered here 25 years ago. Now that the Forest Service has invited trouble by shifting the group to the Cranberry Mountain camping site, we hope they will do what they can to make sure the Rainbows and Nazis ignore each other

Piet: I've written many times about what leftest lefty activists and the rightest right wingwonks have in common* or should have in common but nobody seems to have found and made a big deal of it yet; perhaps I buried it to deep, curse the squirrel in me then.

* taking turns ordering would be bullies around, instructing them from a very early age onward to perform ever more glorious feats of social service. See them sweat for ever bigger, better and more piles of compost.

At 07:51 PM 6/27/2005, Shelley Wertz wrote: >I am in the same boat, Mr. Burns. My son Derek (a single father) and my >granddaughter (who turned 4 on June 12th) left here (Michigan) on the 27th >of May to go to Elkins. I know they got there ok, but I haven't heard >from them in several weeks so I don't even know which site they have >settled at. I wouldn't worry, except that my son told me about these >email groups, and some of the the stuff I read here is pretty scary. It >sounds to me like my granddaughter is in harm's way from law enforcement >officers, neo-nazis, bad water, highway traffic, and poisonous >plants. Derek also told me though that it is difficult to get to a phone, >because (at that time at least) there were road blocks and he had to hike >in and out, so would not be calling for a while. It has caused me some >stress, reading about all the problems and agitation. I'm sure that at a >resident of "Babylon" I am probably deemed incapable of understanding >love, peace, tolerance, and faith, -- however, I seem to have enough >understanding of how the world works to be able to keep a roof over my >granddaughter's head for the 10 months a year that she and my son are not >off gathering with their "family." I hope that the family steps in to >care for my granddaughter should my son land his ... self ... in jail or >the hospital. Oh well. I do admire the Rainbow, and respect the message >they spread. I just don't need the chaos and agitation that seem to be >the norm with these gatherings. Having lived through the 60's and 70's >once, I am just glad to still be sucking air. So I will continue to pray >for peace from where I am, and to let it begin with me. And I will >continue to punch the time clock every day, and to be the little drip of >oil that has fallen through the floorboards of capitalism, so that when >the kitchens close and the gathering is over, I will be able to say to my >son and my granddaughter, Wel! come Home. As John Lennon said, "A >working class hero is something to be." If anyone in the camps sees a >little munchkin who answers to Lani, or Lulu, or Cuckoo Buns, tell her and >her Daddy-O that Grammy misses them. Mr. Burns, I hope you hear from >Paul soon. I guess all we can do is pray for safety for our kids, and for >a change of heart and courage for those who feel threatened by our >kids. "It is within our power to say ' I hear you, and I surrender.' I >am going to try to live well and peaceably." (Geronimo)

Karin:
While some people use the term "babylon", many gatherers don't. Many gatherers, myself included, believe that everyone with a belly button is a Rainbow. You would be surprised at how many gatherers have jobs as doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers and social workers and work very hard all year long to be able to spend three weeks in the woods with their family. Myself included. But knowing that you are concerned about the well being of your family, I have forwarded this message on to some friends who are at the gathering and seem to be popping out to check email from time to time. As to the chaos, it is usually worse on the outside looking in. Once you're in the gathering, life is usually very peaceful except for children crying and the late night drumming to disturb the peace. Love, Karin.

rainbow gathering progress report 4

2005-06-28T00:00:00.000-07:00

http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/125128 Police Brutality and Harrassment at Rainbow Gathering in West Virginia --Excellent link found here: http://www.wildflowerstew.org/mag grey headed lady on Bin Laden birds, poetry and Woodstock stuf at a beautifully made up post nuke site (yeah, the little font sized 'siftwhore')

+ rumours (purported reports) of harassment which prompts me to punch key thusly:

this is what we in Holland call 'tendentious' reporting; it certainly gets countered by reports of perfect tranquility, but hey. .. .this is indy (to talk 'it' people 'to their mouths' = to accomodate the taste of your audience).

Here's a few more links where a mix can be found:

http://www.deja.com/bg.xp?level=alt.gathering.rainbow&ST=++ this will redirect to the google group

http://moongulch.net/pipermail/gathering_info/2005-June/ (over 300K worth already)

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=64 getting quieter as people head out

Stamper- Seattle WTO police chief

2005-06-27T11:46:00.000-07:00

"I think these are really interesting, and there are some interesting quotes here. Norm Stamper came out with a particularly progressive book about policework, where he advocates legalizing all drugs, and advocates community policing, but throughout the book and this interview, he is doing things like discussing the propensity for police to commit domestic violence or become violent people by using himself as an example, and mentions shooting an unarmed person, choking someone etc. Without having read his book, he is making a lot of sense, but he makes some statements regarding WTO=Seattle that don't match what those of us who were there saw - I would say having been there the first day but having returned to work on Wednesday, such as protesters carrying in their own gas weapons rather than just throwing back cannisters. The mayor did make him become the scapegoat for what should have been obvious to anyone in the city the preceding week." http://www.alternet.org/story/22196/ + Seattle Weekly

Next in thread: I was visiting my dad a few years before the WTO-Seattle. While dad and Iwere having a hearttoheart, my ex went downtown to do some site-seeing.When she came back I was informed that I *had* to see this "thing" that washappening in one of the parks. When we showed up the next day, there was afree meal in progress and uniformed Seattle PD were doing the feeding.I like to compare that to the more confrontational hostile attitude taken by otherPDs around around the country, including Santa Cruz, and have always thoughtthat the Seattle Police would get a very different reaction from the poor & homelesswhen there was a problem on the "street".It was a shame about the WTO action making a bit of a mess around Seattle,but as I believe Hillel(?) would have said... Why Seattle? because it is there.What Tac squads and all that do when there are major demonstrations, andthe normal interactions with the community... no matter how weird the locals, can be two very different things.
Leigh http://www.leighm.net/

rainbow gathering progress report 3

2005-06-27T08:25:00.000-07:00

addtional sources for rumours and reports; these forums do backgrounds in dark tones (big plus if you ask me), give everyone a gallery and load suprisingly quick.

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=64 rainbow threads

Sticky: Rainbow basics, read before you post please
05-09-2005 08:07 PM by paix 0 361 -->
here a site, there a site, everywhere a site site
earthmother Today 03:53 PM by makno 1 4
yee haw ma,, talk about a hear sayrumor mill that =disaster for thos who attend..
hippiehillbilly Today 12:41 PM by wiseaction 4 75
Just got back.... ( 1 2 )
Advaya Today 06:36 AMby sodabandito 15 193
alternative site being created ( 1 2 )
wandering spirit Today 06:15 AMby makno 10 205
the itch!!!!!!!!!
hippiehillbilly Today 05:45 AMby hairybuckeye 1 33

http://erthma420.wirefire.com/ranch.html west virgindian campground musicians; free (folk) festi 4 weekend of july

http://www.feelfreefarmproject.org/welcomehome.html N. Georgian hippies (about 10 of them)

rainbow gathering progress report 2

2005-06-26T10:52:00.000-07:00

http://www.welcomehome.org/rainbow/sites/annual-site.html
http://community-1.webtv.net/watrinhole/WateringHole/ (blue page with lotsa (WV) links)

ANECDOTAL:
From iowafox at pocketmail.com Fri Jun 24 ----- [Gathering Info] defenders of animals

Hey, Dave, this is foxfire. You saw me hitchhiking with Little Bear Wednesday. This is a really good Gathering. There is a Mountain Justice Summer Tea House. I wonder if you could help us out? One of the agents provocateurs(Jason Tacbas [sp?]) dressed as FS LEOS maced a dog that was tied up. Then he threatened the people. We have video, so do the feds. Also he, and a group, were very threatening to a woman. There is info on the internet about that particular fed's history of brutal arrests. Could you possibly please send me the address of some WV animal defense type folks, or forward this or something? Thank you much. See you at the Gathering? Love, foxfire P.S. Looks like we could use a printer at the Gathering.

X+:+X<:>X:X:+X:X:+X+:X:X+:X<:>X:X+:+X

OK, first off, at this time (untill the 30th when I arrive on the land) I am just an armchair warrior. However from the info I have read from a week of agr and gathering info postings is that the Sully site is dead and that the two sites that have any momentum are the Cranberry Glades site and the Cheat Mountain site, sounds like from preliminary reports that the Cheat Mountain site is more remote, has more room and By-God swimming holes!!!!!!!! However it seems that the Cranberry site has more people and a signed permit??

I find it hard to believe the rumor that the Forest Service does not require a permit at the Cheat Mountain site, so it remains to be seen whether it will not be challenged by the Feds, however since as it is rumored that it is one of the sites selected by our scouts and not a fed reccomendation, it really intriques me and sounds like a better suited site and if a permit is the only way, I will not block concencess on one for the site..It sounds to me that the site is away from Indiana Bat habitat and if Red Spruce is not present in any quantity then it should not be a problem for Cheat Mountain Salmanders.....

Anyway, I am long winded, In the end I will drag my sorry ass to any site where I can find the family gathered, so please keep sending updates as I will arrive on the 30th of June and hopefully with the best and most current information by with to make my site choice (I am hoping that there is only one site by then, but ya never know, there may be two or more) See all you bellies on the land, Look for me at TeaTime, love and hugs, George**Make Tea, Not War!*****

George Durland ( a legend in his own mind! ) aka:TeaMasterGeorge

I must be gettin' old, my tea-bags are all bloated!!

latest favorite folksong EXCELLENT!!!!!

2005-06-26T07:48:00.000-07:00

http://folkbum.blogspot.com/2005/05/more-memorial-music-monday-dave.html http://daveandtracy.globalhosting.com/index.php
According to Tracy, this song is the last song Dave Carter completed, finished in that summer of 2002 when the country was sinking into Afghanistan and beating the drums for war in Iraq. Remember that almost all of our dead men and women in Iraq have been under 30 . . .

Piet: slightly more realistic than Beethoven no?

Hey Ho
tv’s on, the favorite son is - watchin how the west was won
daddy, please, a plastic gun - get brother one for twice the fun
little camo helmet-heads - makin brave and playin dead
missiles made of gingerbread- dollars on the dime
REFRAIN: hey ho, so it goes, the point of sale, the puppet show
the merchant kings of war and woe have turned their hands to labor
sound out the trumpet noise, the cannons bark and jump for joy
someone’s dread and darlin boy has fallen on his saber
another world across the sea - home for little busy bees
sweatin in some factory - hurry, please, more of these
action dolls with laser sights - robot planes that shoot at night
faster, kid, and get it right - they’re rollin down the line
these days the spin machine is - always on the silver screen
secret plots and submarines - foreign fiends and magazines
wave the flag, watch the news - tell us we can count on you
mom and dad are marchin too - children, step in time
bring your kids and coddled pets - bouncin babes in bassinets
we’ll play a game with tanks and jets - better yet – bayonets!
marchin bands and color guards - funerals in your own backyard
don’t forget your credit card – johnny, hold the line
© Dave Carter / Dave Carter Music (BMI)
administered by Tracy Grammer Music
You can find more information about the life and legacy of Dave Carter, as well as keep up with what Tracy Grammer is doing..06

Hey HoTracy GrammerFlower Of AvalonSigsounds 1292

Tracy Grammer Chords & Lyrics The (C)merchant kings of (G)war and woe have turned their hands to (D/F#)labor ... Secret plots and (Am)submarines, foreign (G)fiends and maga(D/F#)zines ... members.aol.com/rongrittz/tracy.htm -

The wayback machine

2005-06-25T11:49:00.000-07:00

http://www.archive.org it caught up with me as far as last nov (first of three files) so you're stuck with the google caches till I find a new server

go have a listen to Ward Churchill

2005-06-25T10:29:00.000-07:00

Ward is a deep sea diver, I like a bit of scrambling and swinging to stop meself from staying sunk in deep grief (if you think you can afford to dream too read on).

I recommend anybody who can stand and not get too distracted by some body's (tobacco consumption induced) oxygen extraction deficiency combined with taking too few breaths so as not to interrupt his long winded (despite some minor differences I have with them ((see below*)) devastatingly truthful) wordingtorrent (audio at indytorrents too by the way) to listen to Ward and get his meaning.

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/06/320239d.shtml Stream (Ward starts about 21 minutes into it; questioning starts at 38).

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/06/320164d.shtml an earlier link with comments before the event - one of the first items to include 'discussion', a category lately added to allow more tangential chatter.

*If you know my take on militarism (formulated with so far closest semblance of completeness in a file I wrote after the Nato flyers rained down on Yugoslavia and here*2) at least a little you'll know I am not a typical hippy of the flavor Ward makes ridiculous in his speech but a grippy (prototype); here's another recap of an aging precap:

I think permaculturists need to become the advance forces of the army, the latter not stepping till the former are blocked and/or opposed in any way; the alternative should be closely monitored (LIVE!) so no mistakes and myth can form a mold splitting mold that stops a pleasant story to be told .. . for a change.

*2 what you see there (in colour): Preferable (aiming for exclusive) use of force? Servicing pro- not agression! w-c-should and will be creative when realization dawns that belief decidedly derives from be-leaf. (life, love, etc in multiple linguae). --

Fights are usually caused by regressive (vicious circle of scarcity enhancing) power struggles, the explosive testosterone concentrations (originating from a foodfinding focus) and well fed brutality of clumps, gangs, huddles, bands, battalions and divisions of all too similar opponents, whereof each side delegates some functions and specializes in others to start the whole chain of lobsided polarization and division. ---- I think provisionary measures, dressed up sportily to boot and destined to outgrow present arms races faster than Bill Gates could overgrowthrow the legendary JP Morgan.

We are o so good at buggering biomass aloft. Oh humble Microbe soft, where do you want to grow to stay and wend your way aloft?

Half the army's expenses, paraphernalia, personell and/or time might need to be devoted to peace making, (re)construction, conversion and conflict resolution if it wants to representative along gender divide (it remains to be seen if women's sense of in and out is not a little too schizo - for all the suffrage in Jewish society which DOES differentiate them from once again neighbouring arabs, this way of culturation does not seem to be without its problems).

Trees: Pointers to inspire long term planning and provision; achieving optimized nutrition, housing and solar energy reception by varying plant, other being, specie and/or race ages stages and densities.

How to stand up for, behind and under old growth, feel for their stature and benefit from their suspension inviting infrastructure.

Pleaching and all visionary work around it such as designing, planting, thinning, etc, means to stimulate and guide branchfused framings and figurations in such a way that the term biotecture springs to mind and life.

Priority issues:
How to constitute the emission of money in an honest competition leading to fair unification and cleaned up co-operative capitalism?

How to stand up for, behind and under old growth, feel for their stature and benefit from their suspension inviting infrastructure. How to abandon exothermal reactions in favored of more nourishing and slightly less perishable flame and fire forms such as fruit, abundant amounts to be declared a soon to be forthwith enforced human right. How determine wether the information industries are merely surfing the spectrum or if they burden, distort, drain, trash and harness, iow civilize it; I argue to explore and stimulate rather than tame and/or colonize it.

Last but not least: Google Cache for my third collection of links referring to Ward Churchill (hundreds of them with a few quotes and comments here and there) .

UPDATE:
In the assault on his integrity the Mandan Smallpox epidemic takes a prominent place and reviewing all the re- and close reading reports one must conclude that Churchill indeed extrapolated, read between the line and took proleptic leaps to conclusions that are plausible but indeed not implied in the words he cites.

Yet, instead of getting steamed up and all indignant about supposed fraud and malfeasance I think Ward is trying to do the USies a favor, transitioning and easing them to an even worse and more immediately pressing realization and act of facing up to reality, to wit, THE FACT THAT DU- 'ENHANCED' AMMO IS NOW DESTROYING FUTURE GENERATIONS IN WAYS THAT SMALLPOX EPIDEMICS CANNOT!!!!!!! ENTIRE TRIBAL TERRITORIES BECOME UNINHABITABLE AND OFF LIMITS FOR ANY AND ALL LIVING THINGS. IS IT ANY WONDER THAT PEOPLE LIKE WARD CHURCHILL WILL BE TEMPTED TO CUT CORNERS AND FILL IN BLANK(ET)S OF THE UNSAID NOR DENIED WITH THE WORST POSSIBLE CONJECTURES?????????

Instructive snippet of lbo-talk:
Dear Editor: > >The Senate Committee on Indian Affairs is debating whether the United >States should formally apologize to Indians for a "long history of official >depredations and ill-conceived policies." This proposal should be rejected.
.Thomas A. Bowden > >Ayn Rand Institute,
---------------------------------
Someone should remind them of the Pacific Northwest tribes. I feel more sorry for the 18th century European peasant than the people of the Northwest who had abundant fish, fowl and a temperate rain forest... "By the time the Europeans arrived in the 18th century, the societies of the Northwest had developed ways of life that rank among the most complex and sedentary for nonagricultural people anywhere." http://www.cabrillo.edu/~crsmith/noamer_nwcoast.html----------------------------------------
Who's apologizing (really!)? Two on the subject of ...apologies. Both links Mp3 Audio, < 5min < 3Mb -------- Travus T. Hipp Commentary
[ June 16 2005 ]: Shameful Performances of Hypocrisy: On the Senate's Monday Night Apology For Delaying Anti Lynching Laws www.snipurl.com/tth_050616
[ June 23 2005 ]: We're Going To Need Some Practice: Apologies, Saving Face, And Other Painful Lessons That Nations Learn http://snipurl.com/tth_050623
--------------------------------------------------------
.,Ironically, most Randroids or other Objectivist-inspired libertarians were fuming about the recent Supreme Court decision to transfer property from homeowners to the city. But I guess it's okay if the folks being robbed are Indians, because "culture" is being brought to them in exchange
-------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.obleek.com/iraq/index.html > flash visualizing war . .eh sorry. .terrorism .. eh no, .insurgency/resistance casualties

rainbow gathering progress report (nerf)

2005-06-25T08:24:00.000-07:00

From kzirk at earthlink.net Fri Jun 24 20:38:19 2005From: kzirk at earthlink.net (Karin Zirk)Date: Fri Jun 24 20:53:27 2005Subject: [Gathering Info] Gathering Update June 24 7:30 PM California time

Here's the best I can figure out.The NERF kitchen and some others have gone to another location (4th location?)and are trying to talk the folks at Cranberry Glade to move. The messageNERF is putting out is that this (new) location doesn't require a groupuse permit. I have no idea why they think that, but that's what they're putting out.The report I received via phone today was that the Cranberry Glade folksare dug in deep, cops are a pain.The June 28th court appearance is rumored to have been moved to the CranberryGlade Visitors Center. (Directions at http://www.patc.net/hiking/destinations/cranbery.html )

Although there's another rumor that it may be moved again. Please plan onbeing there (where ever there ends up being)If you're going to Cranberry Glade, please bring 5 gallon buckets with lidsas they are in short supply. Also produce is needed as well. Please bringfruits and veggies that can stand the abuse like apples, oranges, carrots,squash, not stuff like lettuce and peaches.I'm including a notice that was posted at the Cranberry Glade Info on June 23rd from aLoven Ovens sister.

WANTED
Sweetie drummers, dancers, singers and supporters. Be a pleasant presence as a present to those ticketed for "use of national forest system lands without a permit." Since getting their tix, all they know is that this is the day of their mandatory court appearance. SALARY: Good Karma
Many of our sisters and brothers might not be able to come back to any National Forest for a year (it's happened before) cuz they went through hell for the family, standing strong, holding a site that many locals always use anyway. *The media will be here. Feds behave better when the media has an eye on them. Any Rainbows who want to be "unduly unauthorized, unrepresentatives" please join use at a press circle (conference) at 8 AM and talk to the media.* There are research reports at arriving at the Info camp at this year's gathering or the next on the true environmental "sensitivity" of the original site. On a related topic, see Info for the 9-page report done on the "Indians" brought into last year's site to council with the family.*****END*****

Here's the info the NERF crew is passing around.
**START***From: joan from maine
Subject: Barton's Knob (where NERF is)Directions from Elkins, South on 219 to Huttonsville,southeast on 250 9 miles to FR227, opposite FR92 attop of Cheat Mountain. Follow 227 7 miles to 233,then right .3 miles to 233A, hard right then 1.7 milesup hill to bus village. We will probably have a dropoff, turnaround shuttle scene at intersection of 223and 223A, cause best parking is on 227.

Reasons for NERF Kitchen Consensus to not go to Pocohontas County,

primarily because the Familyconsensed not to go there at TG Council.

Secondly,the Forest Service put the Family there (and many feltthey had no choice. Now they do)

The fact that the Family has lost three members in Poc. County, Twogirls murdered in 1980, a man in 90 or 91 while in theCounty jail (same sherriff)Reasons for not going there now,

It's too small (onesquare mile in a triangle, surrounded by roads.

The woods are taped off so those who step into them (theWilderness) will be ticketed. It is a swamp. Carsare already getting stuck and it has been a dryspring.

It's a health issue, as well, how do you dig a shitter in a swamp. Family doesn't gather in Wilderness areas generally.

Folks have gone there today to invite the Cranberry people to join us.There is no cell service at the site, and the nearestpay phone is over 20 miles, Library in Elkins. Need to go, I am on a supply run today. Please joinus in a beautiful spot, and support a safe healthy unparanoid gathering.

PS Forest Service has told us we do not need a permitfor this site.I love you guys, please pass this on,Joan

hey, a wiki that escapes (pre)dominance of whiteness (well, backgroundwise anyway)

2005-06-25T04:14:00.000-07:00

http://ud.lir.be/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=Money&source=0 the links (many) don't work, at least until somebody replaces () with [] or some such trick hihi!!

I'll be watching this and perhaps be bold enough to jump in. .. . . .

wait, this looks REALLY good:

Some Important Pages:
12Steps
Be The Change
Events
Money
Media
WirelessNetworks
OpenOrganisation
GaianDemocracies
Permaculture
ChaordicDesignProcess
ViableSystemsModel
EcologicalFootprint
QualityQuids

The previous version of the page linked at top is better (working linkwise; haven't tried the compare versions function yet, should be fun): http://ud.lir.be/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=Money&preview=222 "To be short of money when there's work to get done is like not having enough inches to build a house"

Well, hell, which would you choose is the more practical (potentially fruitful) metaphor; my kind:

To be short of health, boyant vitality and optimism (which autonomous embeddiment in widest possible diversity ((proper(((ly proportioned))) spacing)) will lend anybody) is like saying rocks are short of (prone/sure to cause micro organism population explosion) trace minerals.

.. . or their kind (my version to show you I can remind you correctly):

to be short of telescope lenses when there are stars to view (dust?) is like being short of miles to match them to your focus.

Participation requires registration. I've got a feeling I found a splendid and timely new home. Despite the belgian domain (.be) it is London based and one of the participants has a blog that racks up a few thousand referrals (via google) per 24 hours(! I never did better than 3 hundred): http://blogs.linux.ie/xeer/.

.. . . .. . ..

Monetary Reform page, unlike it's sibling (which has versions 18 through 213 be giant ((viagra))spam with identical time stamps ((aint that symbolic and doubly so ((( .. .for how not just women but meanings also, bleed/blead))) cause in the stats the day this happened is called 'best')): april 19) has only one previous version (given here since the current one has the same disease as the one at the top does currently): http://ud.lir.be/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=MonetaryReform&preview=1

It is really not complete; Greco's co-opting of Beckerath's views/insights in the way of hosting them (admittedly and admiringly as 'essential reading) is nevertheless a version of hostile take-over since it is tempting to overlook the differences and simply assume there aren't any . .. fertile ground for discussion I hope: www.reinventingmoney.com/beckerath.php -- one place to do so is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ijccr international journal for community currencies research

There are of course other places I think deserve space here, like the
CC syndicator

One of the founders at the wiki has a blog in distinctly deeper shades (of blue and grey): http://zed1.com/journalized/ *

They appear to all be Linux heads, view the bunch of them via the (wordpress) blog posted on the frontpage.

* What do a recent post there,

and this: To err is human but to really foul things up requires a computer. Anonymous. (via AGR)

and that (expensive) orc master www.thinkgeek.com/interests/tolkien/5863/ have in common??? Can you be more specific than refer to/whip up/ involve the 'digitariat'?

Ps: hey bloggeroadies, if you don't soon add background colour choices in the composition dept. I'll soon leave off posting again. What a pain.

Rainbow Gathering 2005 WV

2005-06-25T02:10:00.000-07:00

the latest news can be had via the public archive of a listserv:
http://www.welcomehome.org/pipermail/gathering_info

and here: http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=alt.gathering.rainbow

http://www.ashevillecommunity.org/hawker/rainbow/commentary.html

Posted 6/18 by Hawker to AGR
To: AGR
Subject: Welcome Homeless, or Random site info
So we are not "Welcome Home" but sitting here Welcome Homeless.

Things seem to be getting a bit depressing at the site. The last of the kitchens inside the gathering all got tickets yesterday. Some folks from CALM doing a walk through yesterday also got tickets. The same mandatory appearance on the 28th "use and occupancy" tickets that everyone else got. This seems especially strange since there were not 75 folks on site at the time so I don't see how that rule applied anymore. The mood seems to have changed yesterday from "hold our ground" to "we just want to gather so lets move to another site". While many folks are arriving, many are leaving as well. There are a bazillion ways into the site and kitchens are setting up here are there through stealth tactics of going around the FEDs. Still if caught it's a ticket. As a result there are several other campsites including one at an old strip mine that folks are also starting to gather at. The central meeting point seems to be the Krogers in town since we are all over the place in many campsites.

A council was called for today to discuss moving to a new site. I was not there unfortunately but herd back from someone who was. Yesterday as I was leaving the site I spoke to two scouts who have been checking out FS proposed sites for two days. Up until yesterday they felt that none of the sites were workable. They had a site that they found in early spring scouting that was possibly workable and one of the FS proposed sites shown yesterday was deemed workable as well. It sounded that these sites had some things better than the existing site, but in general were not as nice. I got a spotty cell call from site that council had decided today to move to a new location and that location will be announced tomorrow. The call dropped out then, but I assume the site will be in Pocahontas county not Randolph or Tucker where the current site is. I'll post more info just as soon as I know more.

The idea of not holding our ground saddens me as we are setting a dangerous precedence by moving. If the FS knows they can manipulate us now they will try it again. I don't like this. The environmental concerns seem to be BS. Every local resource ranger and environmental ranger (and knowledgeable local) tells me each one ranges from total BS to valid but not for here. I think it's similar to the BS salmon issue in Idaho. The problem was real, but not for the stream we were in. An unnamed ranger told me the site we chose was perfect. It's a very popular camping spot and heavily encouraged to be used because it's a good site. Three weeks ago there were hundreds of cars there camping. Another person told me a group annually gathers there with about 3000 people. None of this would happen if there were real issues with the site. I also found it interesting that three weeks ago when I was on site the signs all said 21 day camping rule. Yesterday those signs have been replaced with 14 day signs. This in an effort to have a reason to kick us out before the 1st, however the change was only made for Rainbows (didn't we win the last targeting one group court case we had).

The town has been great. Everyone has been so friendly and helpful, including the law enforcement and other officials. I have attended meetings with the local hospital, EMS/EMT, Health Dept, State emergency management, environmental team, town council and more and everyone has been friendly and helpful.

On another note. My E-mail account has been receiving almost 300 e-mails a day. I can't possibly respond to all these e-mails so If I don't respond to you, or give you a form letter, short letter, etc, sorry I'm just a bit overwhelmed by the amount of e-mail I am getting. If I get a good question I may answer publicly with your question so others know as well,.
I'm getting allot of emails about Cell phone access. 1st cal your cell company and ask them what code to type into your phone to update your PRL (Preferred Roaming List) first. It's a couple of digets (different for each cell carrier) that helps you get a tower when you roam.
I have US Cellular, a CDMA Tri Mode phone. It works up to close to the site.
I have been told that Cellular One works better. I think they are TDMA. Folks with TDMA based phones get coverage on the ridge above the gathering, mine is not as good.
Cingular GSM and SPRINT phones do not even work from Elkins much less site. Older Cingular that come from the AT&T lineage (TDMA) work from town.
Along 3rd street in Elkins are many free 802.11 Wi-Fi hot spots with easy access.

HawkerPosted 6/19 by me to AGR
To: AGR
Subject: Let's Gather. Ignore All Rumors. More info
Woza, what a day. My phone has been ringing off the hook all day.
First the facts, then the commentary. It's hard to get all the truth because I am not there and many stories conflicts with each other. I have spoken today with several folks on site and many others and am trying to piece together the real story.
As for the new site. My directions from folks on site are slightly different than Rob's. It is in Cranberry Glades. The directions are take 219 70 miles south of Elkins to Mill Point. Turn Right on 55/39. Go 6 miles to Rd 150. Left 6/10 of a mile to 102. Left on 102. This would seem that the directions for folks not on site already (coming from Elkins) are : Interstate 64 to 219 (exit 169). North on 219 to 55/39 and follow the rest of the directions.
Also as I understand this there never was a consensus to move the site. I last spoke to the scouts Friday Night. At the time they had just found this new site. They said it had some good points, but a major road went right through main meadow. They also said they didn't want to move and were upset that they heard folks wanted to move. Given this I don't understand why most rumors now are the scouts said lets go when others said no. I won't know the real story till I am able to talk to them. Kid Village called a council for Saturday. I was told that there was lots of shouting and arguing and no consensus. Then KV and the scouts just left to the new site. I spoke to no one on site who wanted to move or who thought that they should move, yet they are moving since the feel beat by the FS, Scouts and KV.
Re: The stolen water pipe rumor. Here is what I know. There was a stash of water pipe at the back door. It was NOT all the water pipe, perhaps 1/5th of it at best. I personally saw this water pipe on Friday. On Saturday there were horse tracks all around it but it was not there any more. This is the water pipe that was stolen by the FS. AFAIK the big stash is under cover and safe where I left it, but i have not confirmed this. I left the rest with a responsible person who made effort to keep it hidden as they were concerned about it being stolen already.
I was told that several folks will call me tonight or tomorrow morning from site with more updates and info. I personally am meeting with one of the scouts in a few hours and will upload topo maps to Rob and my site as well. I may not be able to host maps myself anymore because the bandwidth is costing me too much as I have exceeded my bandwidth contract (to many 3MB topo maps and 400k JPGs I guess). If someone wants to donate for the bandwidth I will replace it, otherwise I will just give Rob the info for welcomehome.org.
Some folks are gathering/staying in other sites including the strip mine (RJ) near Elkins and other campsites trying to re-group and figure out what to do. There are also other sites that are better that the scouts found, but didn't use because they liked the Elkins site, so why are we not going to them? This site is a set up. It was chosen by the FS because it was closer to there camp in Snowshoe resort and because it is easier for the FS to drive into the site. I am being told that the parking lot crew is signing the permit for this FS chosen site and is trying to make sure there are not the kind of issues we had last year (no nudity, dogs on leashes, drive ins by the FS etc) but my trust for the Tim Lynn and the FEDs is 0. They have already lied to us on several occasions this year alone and broken several promises.

O.k. So the commentary (or more blatantly commentary).

WHAT THE FUCK ARE WE DOING PEOPLE! This is dangerous precedence we are setting here letting the FS know they can whip us into submission. Now they think they can run things every year. There is no telling what they will try to pull next year. In addition we need to NOT be in Pocahontas county. There is no support system there. The town doesn't love us like Elkins did. The Emergency Management system there has only BLS not ALS (Basic/Advanced Life Support) for emergencies. Elkins has ALS. They are only volunteers so it impacts them more than the larger more established town of Elkins. We loose all the work and time we have done working with local businesses and agencies as well as understanding the site and how to best use it. Buisness owners who stuck there neck out to help us now get screwed and loose $$$ (they bought extra supplies for us). This happened because the site was mostly populated by young, inexperienced kids who lacked past knowledge on how to fight this as well as the support of enough people to maintain the site. In addition most of the experienced folks were hiding in town, other campsites or the back door rather than teaching the kids how to fight and encouraging them. By the time folks, myself included, started working to motivate folks and teach them how to reclaim the site moral had been to far lost and we had been beat. There are plenty of other ways into the first site from many angles. They can't stop us all if we just keep showing up there.
We need to ignore all rumors, including those of a moved site and return to the original site, where we can safely gather in a good location. When enough folks show up then we can reclaim the site from the federalies.
Hawker

Back to Rainbow 2005 page
Now Quit-yer-bitchin and come together to pray and heal the family on the land soon!I love you all and will see you soon!Hawker

One down, many but how to go?

2005-06-25T01:23:00.000-07:00

My 60Mb homepage at lycos.nl is a goner. One two go, but how many down? For about 2 years lycos hosted my variable content but static adress, iow, 'blog' spot so far apart from a little foolin about here: http://powdertowell.blogspot.com/2005/02/break-through-that-rock-there-for-me.html
and recently here (posts there are in dutch mostly - NL but not exclusively):
http://wwwoord.web-log.nl (green on blue)
http://sjeesasverlostkristallen.web-log.nl (black on blue)
http://gekkestek.web-log.nl/ (black on darker blue)
http://teelteelt.web-log.nl (green on green)

Those of you curious enough to copy and paste the urls one finds through the archived version of the logbriefer need but copy/paste the first half of just mentioned url before whichever you choose to try and trace.

the still older adress with my first 20Mb worth of extremely colourful and twisted to the point of Krausianesque wording is still up: http://poetpiet.tripod.com

A slightly different version of the above (published yesterday on the indymain newswire which I spent a few ((prewar)) years excerpting ((and adding to)), retrievable using 'indymediasamples link via my front page) is here: http://newswire.indymedia.org/nl/newswire/2005/06/823512.shtml

and here (too much white that page bwana!): http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/world/2005/06/314788.html

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/world/2005/06/312354.html a video of a woman who's ordered to get out of her car and tazered while/cause she remains on the phone with her hubby (she went 4 miles over the speedlimit) instead of promptly obeying; the perfect anecdote to teaze pros and cons out of the woodwork: 64 comments - more reasonable subjects (not many) are far from receiving that kind of attention. --- it's always the wrong kind of idiots (not the savants) that distract from all things needful.

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/06/314581.html WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT BONO AND GELDOF? mcw 21.06.2005 12:26 (29 comments).

A link to a very prettily customized (by roman-britain.org) google page for 'vadercats', ignore the thundercats thing, it's by a juvenile flasher, all others mine

Udpate (june twentyeight):
Like Wired, Lycos depended on revenue from advertising. Content was merely one method of attracting “sticky eyeballs”. Angelfire and Tripod, two other Lycos properties, depended on users to create sites, each with prominent ads, a fraction of which drew enough traffic to support the others. With the acquisition of Wired’s stable of sites—including Wired News, Webmonkey, and Suck—they were not buying the editorial as much as proven audiences to expose to ad banners. “I don’t know why at some point they just didn’t say, ‘Oh, what’s this thing? Get rid of it.’ But they never did, didn’t seem to pay attention to what we were doing, and particularly didn’t pay attention to what we were spending. So I was able to get a lot of people paid good money.”
http://www.keepgoing.org/issue20_giant/the_big_fish.html large article by By Matt Sharkey on the first great website that taught the newest in ever worse ways to suck dot com